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It's nice when you can have a self-aware laugh occasionally. This is clearly self-parody from a publication that I gather is serious about audio hardware, righ

It's nice when you can have a self-aware laugh occasionally. This is clearly self-parody from a publication that I gather is serious about audio hardware, right up to the edge of woo-woo imperceptible stuff, but probably not over that line. A lineup of digital interconnects, which by definition are either perfect or have obvious signal dropouts, combined with language like "neutral without sounding bleached, dynamic without sounding piercing, detailed without sounding analytical" is a comical amplification on what I'm guessing is their usual review style. This is The Absolute Sound's equivalent to the fake HN frontpage that makes the rounds now and then. [edit] Evidently, I was too quick to give them the benefit of the doubt. It seems most of the defense around audiophile-grade digital cables is that they "reduce jitter" (which somehow then translates to noticeable changes in different areas of the audible spectrum that can be described in wine-spectator terms) – does anyone have a good link or explanation on this principle?

masklinn 13y ago
Erm… here's a normal TAS article: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/transparent-reference-xl-digital-link/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/transparent-referen... This is an RCA coax cable for ~$3000 a meter. The article is not about laughing at such a silly idea. Unless TAS is actually The Onion of the audio world, I don't think the editor's choice linked here is self-parody or self-aware. Here's an other one, $1700/m: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-prairie-fire-ii-release/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-prairie-fir... Or these $5000/m pieces of wonder: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-orion-release/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-orion-relea... Please note that all three of these cables are intended for digital interconnection (AES or SPDIF), not analog. These "reviews" are not uncommon, and yes you'll get the same stuff for HDMI[0]. You'll also get recommendations for $7200 speaker power chords: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/crystal-cable-absolute-dream-speaker-cable-interconnect-and-power-cords/?page=5 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/crystal-cable-absol... [0] for a mere $350/m for instance http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-releases-first-american-made-high-speed-hdmi-cable/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-releases-fi...
brigade 13y ago
You say it's clearly parody, but they post breathlessly positive reviews for cables on a regular basis. So unless you're suggesting that the entire site is an extended parody... http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=30 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=30 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=32 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=32 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=33 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=33 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=34 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=34
moocowduckquack 13y ago
This isn't a parody. For another example: One of the best value rooms in Munich featured Marten Django L loudspeakers at €6900/pair, Nagra electronics, and the surprisingly affordable Purist Audio Genesis Series cables including a $300 interconnect, $375 speaker cable, and $250 Vesta power cord. from here - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-quartet-of-new-cable-lines-at-the-munich-show-2013/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-quartet-of-new-ca... Here is that power cord on sale - https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Vesta https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Vesta
- eigenvector 13y ago
  Oh my god that is a premium $275 15A wall plug. There's just too much wrong with this. I don't know where to start. Electrical engineer brain. Is. Exploding.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    They are by a nuclear bloke from Texas called Jim Aud apparently, who also does a $900 USB cable. http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Ultimate-USB http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Ultimate-USB edit - I'm going to stop looking through that website, it is making me upset. They have a 1m power cable called avatarII for $16,950 from some criminally deranged outfit called pranawire - http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Avatar-II http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Avatar-II
    - codfrantic 13y ago
      Luckily you can customize the lenght of that Avatar-II cable. the maximum input it allows is 1010 meters. For the low low price of: $10,006,050.00 ... [Add to cart]
batbomb 13y ago
An amazon reviewer reviewed this cable on his blog: http://donaldscarinci.com/digital-cables-make-little-difference-in-sound-quality http://donaldscarinci.com/digital-cables-make-little-differe... He says the difference is "subtle".
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 13y ago
  Since everyone who will ever buy a $600 USB cable is totally price insensitive when it comes to audio equipment, this review is "mission accomplished" for any company selling those cables. "Subtle" is at least something. Expensive speaker cables are a Veblen good, but nobody wants to knowing plow money into Veblen goods; they need to believe there is some return on the investment.
rayiner 13y ago
Jitter is definitely a real phenomenon: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diginterf1_e.html http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diginterf1_e.html. It's easy to forget that these "digital interconnects" are all fundamentally analog. Whether you can hear the distortion created by jitter or not is an entirely separate issue.
- paol 13y ago
  That may be true, but this is a USB cable and (IIRC) USB is packet-based. There is no way that clock jitter can influence the final result. (edit: upvoted for the informative link, in any case)
  - rayiner 13y ago
    USB is packet based, but USB Audio still recovers the clock signal from the timing of bits on the wire. This recovered clock is used to drive the DAC, which produces the final analog waveform.
    - paol 13y ago
      Interesting! Just read up a little on that, and from here http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/2/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/2/Fundamentals-of... it appears that is only one of several options (and acknowledged as a bad choice)
      - rayiner 13y ago
        It is only one of several options, but it's also the most common one. It's a lot more expensive to build a device that operates in isochronous. You need to have a local buffer, extra compute capability, a high-quality local clock, etc.
- mark-r 13y ago
  This was much more important in the early days of CD players, when there was no buffering between the signal and the D/A converter. The timing of the signal could definitely influence the timing of the conversion, which would change the waveform in a subtle way that could be audible.
tinco 13y ago
The idea of jitter is simple, due to noise on your clock signals there's bits that get flipped. When the circuit on the other end is dumb that means a little distortion which reduces the 'clarity' of the sound you hear. The solution is obvious, buffer, error correct and reclock your data before you turn it to analog again. Expensive USB dacs do this. People thinking digital can be forgetful of the fact that with a regular USB connection, 8% loss on the channel is no problem because corrupt data is simply resent. Audio has a realtime constraint. Another problem with defending based on jitter is that jitter is pretty hard to measure, you need expensive specific measuring hardware. Anyway, this explains why shielding can be important for audio USB cables. It does not explain why the cables are over $15. A reasonable explanation could be that the demand for very high quality cables is so low that it's unfeasible to sell them for less than $100. But, if the world of audiophiles was really so rational. Then these reviews would go like this: This $10 cable is nice, but it sounds muddy. This $100 cable is nicer, it has more clarity. This $1000 cable is really good, the sound is very clear. There would be only 1 sonical property, the clarity, lack of which would be caused by jitter. But, that's not the case. The reviewers describe the cables as if at a wine tastery where every wine has different ingredients and qualities. I have no explanation for that, but the implication of malice.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  How can jitter on a cable be hard to measure if it is actual bits being flipped?

masklinn 13y ago

Erm… here's a normal TAS article: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/transparent-reference-xl-digital-link/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/transparent-referen... This is an RCA coax cable for ~$3000 a meter. The article is not about laughing at such a silly idea. Unless TAS is actually The Onion of the audio world, I don't think the editor's choice linked here is self-parody or self-aware. Here's an other one, $1700/m: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-prairie-fire-ii-release/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-prairie-fir... Or these $5000/m pieces of wonder: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-orion-release/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/enklein-orion-relea... Please note that all three of these cables are intended for digital interconnection (AES or SPDIF), not analog. These "reviews" are not uncommon, and yes you'll get the same stuff for HDMI[0]. You'll also get recommendations for $7200 speaker power chords: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/crystal-cable-absolute-dream-speaker-cable-interconnect-and-power-cords/?page=5 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/crystal-cable-absol... [0] for a mere $350/m for instance http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-releases-first-american-made-high-speed-hdmi-cable/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-releases-fi...

brigade 13y ago

You say it's clearly parody, but they post breathlessly positive reviews for cables on a regular basis. So unless you're suggesting that the entire site is an extended parody... http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=30 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=30 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=32 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=32 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=33 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=33 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=34 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?categories=34

moocowduckquack 13y ago

This isn't a parody. For another example: One of the best value rooms in Munich featured Marten Django L loudspeakers at €6900/pair, Nagra electronics, and the surprisingly affordable Purist Audio Genesis Series cables including a $300 interconnect, $375 speaker cable, and $250 Vesta power cord. from here - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-quartet-of-new-cable-lines-at-the-munich-show-2013/ http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-quartet-of-new-ca... Here is that power cord on sale - https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Vesta https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Vesta

eigenvector 13y ago
Oh my god that is a premium $275 15A wall plug. There's just too much wrong with this. I don't know where to start. Electrical engineer brain. Is. Exploding.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  They are by a nuclear bloke from Texas called Jim Aud apparently, who also does a $900 USB cable. http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Ultimate-USB http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Ultimate-USB edit - I'm going to stop looking through that website, it is making me upset. They have a 1m power cable called avatarII for $16,950 from some criminally deranged outfit called pranawire - http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Avatar-II http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Avatar-II
  - codfrantic 13y ago
    Luckily you can customize the lenght of that Avatar-II cable. the maximum input it allows is 1010 meters. For the low low price of: $10,006,050.00 ... [Add to cart]

batbomb 13y ago

An amazon reviewer reviewed this cable on his blog: http://donaldscarinci.com/digital-cables-make-little-difference-in-sound-quality http://donaldscarinci.com/digital-cables-make-little-differe... He says the difference is "subtle".

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 13y ago
Since everyone who will ever buy a $600 USB cable is totally price insensitive when it comes to audio equipment, this review is "mission accomplished" for any company selling those cables. "Subtle" is at least something. Expensive speaker cables are a Veblen good, but nobody wants to knowing plow money into Veblen goods; they need to believe there is some return on the investment.

rayiner 13y ago

Jitter is definitely a real phenomenon: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diginterf1_e.html http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diginterf1_e.html. It's easy to forget that these "digital interconnects" are all fundamentally analog. Whether you can hear the distortion created by jitter or not is an entirely separate issue.

paol 13y ago
That may be true, but this is a USB cable and (IIRC) USB is packet-based. There is no way that clock jitter can influence the final result. (edit: upvoted for the informative link, in any case)
- rayiner 13y ago
  USB is packet based, but USB Audio still recovers the clock signal from the timing of bits on the wire. This recovered clock is used to drive the DAC, which produces the final analog waveform.
  - paol 13y ago
    Interesting! Just read up a little on that, and from here http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/2/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/2/Fundamentals-of... it appears that is only one of several options (and acknowledged as a bad choice)
    - rayiner 13y ago
      It is only one of several options, but it's also the most common one. It's a lot more expensive to build a device that operates in isochronous. You need to have a local buffer, extra compute capability, a high-quality local clock, etc.
mark-r 13y ago
This was much more important in the early days of CD players, when there was no buffering between the signal and the D/A converter. The timing of the signal could definitely influence the timing of the conversion, which would change the waveform in a subtle way that could be audible.

tinco 13y ago

The idea of jitter is simple, due to noise on your clock signals there's bits that get flipped. When the circuit on the other end is dumb that means a little distortion which reduces the 'clarity' of the sound you hear. The solution is obvious, buffer, error correct and reclock your data before you turn it to analog again. Expensive USB dacs do this. People thinking digital can be forgetful of the fact that with a regular USB connection, 8% loss on the channel is no problem because corrupt data is simply resent. Audio has a realtime constraint. Another problem with defending based on jitter is that jitter is pretty hard to measure, you need expensive specific measuring hardware. Anyway, this explains why shielding can be important for audio USB cables. It does not explain why the cables are over $15. A reasonable explanation could be that the demand for very high quality cables is so low that it's unfeasible to sell them for less than $100. But, if the world of audiophiles was really so rational. Then these reviews would go like this: This $10 cable is nice, but it sounds muddy. This $100 cable is nicer, it has more clarity. This $1000 cable is really good, the sound is very clear. There would be only 1 sonical property, the clarity, lack of which would be caused by jitter. But, that's not the case. The reviewers describe the cables as if at a wine tastery where every wine has different ingredients and qualities. I have no explanation for that, but the implication of malice.

moocowduckquack 13y ago
How can jitter on a cable be hard to measure if it is actual bits being flipped?