7 ms·

I still wonder why the people who design and sell these products aren't all in jail. "Audiophile" nonsense is a prime example of how consumer protection laws d

by pslam 13y ago

I still wonder why the people who design and sell these products aren't all in jail. "Audiophile" nonsense is a prime example of how consumer protection laws don't work if you invoke any kind of pseudo-science in your marketing.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
adamnemecek 13y ago
I would say that the bullshit audiophile products are in a minority and there certainly are legit audiophile products.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  As a former professional recording engineer, I'd say the opposite.
  - TillE 13y ago
    Eh, there's plenty of cheap garbage that you really want to avoid, at least in the world of analog cables. I've used so many instrument cables that don't make good contact. At some point I wound up just soldering Neutrik connectors on to good quality bulk cable. The advantage Monster has is that their stuff is reliably good and widely available, even if it is obscenely overpriced.
    - ashmud 13y ago
      Re: Monster. I haven't bought any of their stuff in years, but IME their interconnects were fine, but speaker cables not so much. I ended up terminating the speaker cables myself after the connectors on the originals and on the replaced (by Monster) cables fell off.
    - clarky07 13y ago
      yes, but we are talking about digital cables. big difference.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  My personal favorite: http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.html http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.ht...
DennisP 13y ago
A salesguy in an audio store once tried to sell a bunch of pseudoscience to a friend of mine. My friend said (truthfully), "Ok but I think you should know, I'm a grad student in physics." Salesguy didn't blink, just said "Oh, then you already know all this stuff!"
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
DanBC 13y ago
In the UK companies carefully craft ads to comply with the advertising codes. Certainly audiophile advert sniping is fun if you're bored and have the time available to do so.
baddox 13y ago
> I still wonder why the people who design and sell these products aren't all in jail. Because it's not illegal, and it would be ridiculous for it to be illegal.
- sp332 13y ago
  Lying this badly about the product you're selling may be over the line into fraud.
  - baddox 13y ago
    Where are the lies? I see subjective claims.
- pslam 13y ago
  The buyer is led to believe they are spending $695 on a device which will improve their audio quality. In fact, it will have absolutely no benefit whatsoever. They will feel ripped off for the extra $694. The seller knows damn well their device does absolutely nothing to improve audio quality. They know they are profiting from deliberately misleading buyers. Every time this happens, they make almost $695 profit. So, why is this not illegal?
  - baddox 13y ago
    > The buyer is led to believe they are spending $695 on a device which will improve their audio quality. The problem is, there's probably no good way to legally argue that it doesn't improve their audio quality, since audio quality is obviously incredibly subjective, especially when most of the buyers are probably very satisfied.
    - pslam 13y ago
      No, there is a good way to argue it: it is provable that there is no improvement. That is exactly what's wrong with this industry: it convinces people that something entirely provable and quantifiable by math and physics, is in fact unmeasurable and qualitative. It's not limited to "audiophile" nonsense of course - there's all sorts of herbal remedies flooding shelves at your local store which rely on this non-exist fuzziness. Most buyers are probably very satisfied, but I'm sure if it were a painkiller they were buying, they would be horrified to learn later that it was just sugar. The difference is that in "audiophile" nonsense land, the manufacturers would still be openly advertising it as containing sugar.
mikeash 13y ago
The thing is, there are real psychological effects that come from your beliefs. For example, it's well established that wine tastes better when you think it's more expensive. Likewise, audio really does sound better when you're using what you merely think is better equipment. If you think about this stuff as changing the physical sound, it's completely bogus. If you think about it as changing the subjective experience of hearing the sound then it works for some people. And that, to me, is a really interesting point: anybody who would buy this stuff is automatically in the category of people for whom it can actually work. Those of us who recognize that the "science" behind it is complete crap won't get any benefit from it, but we won't buy it either.

by pslam 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

adamnemecek 13y ago

I would say that the bullshit audiophile products are in a minority and there certainly are legit audiophile products.

WalterSear 13y ago
As a former professional recording engineer, I'd say the opposite.
- TillE 13y ago
  Eh, there's plenty of cheap garbage that you really want to avoid, at least in the world of analog cables. I've used so many instrument cables that don't make good contact. At some point I wound up just soldering Neutrik connectors on to good quality bulk cable. The advantage Monster has is that their stuff is reliably good and widely available, even if it is obscenely overpriced.
  - ashmud 13y ago
    Re: Monster. I haven't bought any of their stuff in years, but IME their interconnects were fine, but speaker cables not so much. I ended up terminating the speaker cables myself after the connectors on the originals and on the replaced (by Monster) cables fell off.
  - clarky07 13y ago
    yes, but we are talking about digital cables. big difference.
FireBeyond 13y ago
My personal favorite: http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.html http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.ht...

DennisP 13y ago

A salesguy in an audio store once tried to sell a bunch of pseudoscience to a friend of mine. My friend said (truthfully), "Ok but I think you should know, I'm a grad student in physics." Salesguy didn't blink, just said "Oh, then you already know all this stuff!"

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

DanBC 13y ago

In the UK companies carefully craft ads to comply with the advertising codes. Certainly audiophile advert sniping is fun if you're bored and have the time available to do so.

baddox 13y ago

> I still wonder why the people who design and sell these products aren't all in jail. Because it's not illegal, and it would be ridiculous for it to be illegal.

sp332 13y ago
Lying this badly about the product you're selling may be over the line into fraud.
- baddox 13y ago
  Where are the lies? I see subjective claims.
pslam 13y ago
The buyer is led to believe they are spending $695 on a device which will improve their audio quality. In fact, it will have absolutely no benefit whatsoever. They will feel ripped off for the extra $694. The seller knows damn well their device does absolutely nothing to improve audio quality. They know they are profiting from deliberately misleading buyers. Every time this happens, they make almost $695 profit. So, why is this not illegal?
- baddox 13y ago
  > The buyer is led to believe they are spending $695 on a device which will improve their audio quality. The problem is, there's probably no good way to legally argue that it doesn't improve their audio quality, since audio quality is obviously incredibly subjective, especially when most of the buyers are probably very satisfied.
  - pslam 13y ago
    No, there is a good way to argue it: it is provable that there is no improvement. That is exactly what's wrong with this industry: it convinces people that something entirely provable and quantifiable by math and physics, is in fact unmeasurable and qualitative. It's not limited to "audiophile" nonsense of course - there's all sorts of herbal remedies flooding shelves at your local store which rely on this non-exist fuzziness. Most buyers are probably very satisfied, but I'm sure if it were a painkiller they were buying, they would be horrified to learn later that it was just sugar. The difference is that in "audiophile" nonsense land, the manufacturers would still be openly advertising it as containing sugar.

mikeash 13y ago

The thing is, there are real psychological effects that come from your beliefs. For example, it's well established that wine tastes better when you think it's more expensive. Likewise, audio really does sound better when you're using what you merely think is better equipment. If you think about this stuff as changing the physical sound, it's completely bogus. If you think about it as changing the subjective experience of hearing the sound then it works for some people. And that, to me, is a really interesting point: anybody who would buy this stuff is automatically in the category of people for whom it can actually work. Those of us who recognize that the "science" behind it is complete crap won't get any benefit from it, but we won't buy it either.