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What about the bnoordhuis story? It seems not to be active again for his lib: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/graphs/contributors https://github.com/joyent/lib
by hartator 13y ago
What about the bnoordhuis story?
It seems not to be active again for his lib: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/graphs/contributors https://github.com/joyent/libuv/graphs/contributors
For people who don't know, bnoordhuis exiled himself 2 months ago after the bashing the node.js community imposed him for not merging a pull about gender. It was a shame because he was in the top 3 contributors. (all details: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015)
- IsaacSchlueter 13y agoWhat about 9/11?
- nkohari 13y agoWon't someone please think of the children!
- hartator 13y agoI can understand if you don't want to talk of that anymore, no need to be agressive. [I don't know either of you but I think that's a sad story.]
- IsaacSchlueter 13y agoI agree. 9/11 was indeed very sad. And it had about as much to do with this announcement as Ben's departure from Node last year.
- nthrow 13y ago"Last year" is a funny way to frame 2 months ago.
- IsaacSchlueter 13y agoReally, what happened 2 months ago was just the tail end of what had taken many months to build up. I say "last year", because it started much earlier, as Ben alluded to in his parting message. People outside a team rarely have much insight into the day to day relationships. That's just how it works. That's what a "team" is.
- hartator 13y agoYeah, whole different level of sadness I hope though. Again, no need to be agressive, it's not that idiotic to ping the past when we talk about the futur.
- jlas 13y agoSince I lack the ability to downvote I felt compelled to write that this response is quite distasteful. This exacerbates the gendered-pronoun incident and serves to divide the community. I expect better from a community leader.
- smrtinsert 13y agoHow is it divisive? Pointless questions deserve pointless answers.
- jsmthrowaway 13y agoInvoking the deaths of 3,000 people and one of the darkest moments in United States history to make a point about being asked an undesirable question comes to mind. There's also a first blush interpretation that reads as comparing Ben's departure to said events. I got to the original comment and rolled my eyes that I halfway knew someone would bring it up today. Rather than dismiss it, though, somehow Isaac found a way to make it worse. I should start invoking the holocaust when discussions aren't going the way I want, apparently.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- untog 13y agoWhile invoking 9/11 isn't exactly the best way to illustrate the point I agree with Isaac that this doesn't have anything to do with npm, and is just an attempt at digging up old drama. And yes, the sitation with regards to that commit is unfortunate, but I'm not sure what any of us can do about it beyond wait for someone to get over themselves and start contributing again.
- jsmthrowaway 13y agoI'm starting to think everyone involved with node.js should probably start speaking through a PR person. I can't even remotely imagine the logic behind this comment.
- mjn 13y agoI'm not sure if you're American or not, but it's a fairly common meme of sorts in U.S. discourse. "But what about 9/11" is shorthand for "I'm bringing up some random political point that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, because I hope I can outrage people." For a period absolutely everything, whether at all even distantly related or not, was somehow tied to "because 9/11" or "what about 9/11". Not because people actually thought it was relevant, but because politicians can't pass up a chance to grandstand by invoking something that people have strong opinions on. I thought it was a succinct way of conveying the point here. "But what about the node.js gender incident??" isn't as widespread and not as big a problem as the "but what about 9/11???" crowd, but suffers from a sort of isomorphic logic.
- untog 13y agoThe popular example of this being skewered is Family Guy's take on Rudy Guliani: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg
- jsmthrowaway 13y agoOn 4chan, "Jews did 9/11" is also a meme. Should I not consider that a horrible comment simply because it has some meme qualities? Bend over backwards to forgive and explain all you want, I guess.
- mjn 13y agoIf someone were to mock a conspiracy theorist by saying he was like the "Jews did 9/11" people, I wouldn't have any problem with that comparison.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- defied 13y agoA comment like this makes me question node/npm's future...
- railsdude 13y agoThat's beyond distasteful. Node.js seems to be the new Rails/Ruby community, from a couple of years ago, drama-wise. And, ironically, this is on his profile: "I don't look at this site much, because it turns people into jerks."
- Dewie 13y agoIt surprises me that there seems to be quite a few people who have genuine contempt for the Hacker News forum. I think that people here are for the most part reasonable, even though we don't always give out our viewpoints in a straightforward, snark-free manner (but few Web communities are free of that kind of stuff). Posts that are very unreasonable seems to tend to be downvoted. But then I think that maybe I've become too coloured by this forum to really have the outside view of this place.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Glide 13y agoBeing in high school in Northern VA when the Pentagon was hit that day really does color my perception of when people bring up this event. This is coming from someone who remembers Rudy Giuliani's brain being replaced by a broken record player during his presidential campaign. It took way too long for me to get what you were trying to convey.
- mcphilip 13y agoFrom IsaacSchlueter's HN profile: >I don't look at this site much, because it turns people into jerks. Contact me somewhere else. It's like he's throwing stones in a glass house and then complaining of all the vandals...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- nthrow 13y agoHow offensive. Aren't you aware that empathy is a core engineering value?
- smrtinsert 13y agoWhy not ask him directly instead of bringing up old pointless news.
- yapcguy 13y ago2 months is old? Key node members fighting amongst themselves is pointless news? Or how about Joyent saying they would sack Ben even though he didn't work for them?
- untog 13y agoHow about this thread being about changes to the organisation of npm and nothing to do with the drama the OP tried to crowbar into conversation?
- yapcguy 13y agoA guy involved in the drama and self-exile of a key Node contributor is now starting his own company to profit from what has long been regarded "community" infrastructure. He wants your money. For some people, past behaviour and conduct might be a factor in deciding whether or not to support NPM Inc.
- untog 13y agoThere were a lot of people "involved" in the drama. The overwhelming majority were against the guy who exiled himself. I guess I'm really not seeing the issue here, and think that "this guy who is setting up a company was involved in drama he did not create himself" feels tenuous.
- yapcguy 13y agoActually, Isaac was definitely part of the drama. Ben rejected a third party pull request, Isaac commited a change related to the pull request, Ben rejected Isaac's commit because Isaac broke the commit rules by not getting sign-off before committing. Ben walks away after getting libelled by Joyent and virtually fired (http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun) while Isaac gets to go on and make coin from NPM...
- zephjc 13y agoThat is some ridiculous bikeshedding
- jonknee 13y agoGoodness. I haven't read a pull request discussion like that since the semicolon battle in Bootstrap (https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/3057 https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/3057). At least the semi-colon pull request actually fixed something.
- Pxtl 13y ago... long discussion is long, but now I'm curious - did somebody eventually cave? Or did the offending line of code get reformatted into the appropriate if-statement since using the shortcircuiting behavior of javascript "and" as a naked flow-control construct seems obscene.
- dllthomas 13y agoSome people like obscenity.
- swang 13y agoRead fat's first post. The code was already changed but fat was purposely trolling.
- jonknee 13y agoBootstrap is still semi-colon free. I really don't like the style personally, but I'm not about to start a flame war. https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/blob/master/js/dropdown.js https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/blob/master/js/dropdown.js
- VikingCoder 13y ago"I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development. I do it more out a sense of duty than anything else. If this is what I have to deal with, then I'd just as rather do something else." That sucks. This is why we can't have nice things.
- m0a0t0 13y agoHe got called out for making a dodgy call; it was by a lot of people, which can't have been nice but does is this not part of the job? I honestly don't know, I've never been in that position. I get the feeling (and please tell me if I'm reading too much into this) that you take exception to the pull request and what many people would call political correctness.
- VikingCoder 13y agoHave you actually read his response? https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568172 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568... I don't think it was a dodgy call. I think people went unforgivably ape-shit, gained effectively nothing, and made someone else feel bad enough that they stopped contributing to an important project.
- m0a0t0 13y agoI did, thanks very much for asking. Originally however he called it "trivial" which gives a bad impression. Furthermore I think generally you shouldn't say that any contribution is "more trouble than it's worse" because that stops a tonne of people being part of the open source community. > I think people went unforgivably ape-shit I'm not sure people went "ape-shit". There was a lot of discussion but it was generally polite, a lot more so than the normal internet discussion. >they stopped contributing to an important project That's a shame
- Zikes 13y ago> There was a lot of discussion but it was generally polite Except where everyone called for him to be fired, and publicly slandered and demonized him on Twitter, github, HN, and in blogs. But apart from that, yes, a model of civility.
- tlear 13y agoInteresting and really sad
- usethis 13y agoI find it rather depressing
- nthrow 13y agoYes. Joyent directed public wrath at an individual, over a political issue, who was a key employee of a competitor. This employee then left the community. Then, a day or two after, Joyent launched a competing offering IIRC. The Node project blog then essentially told the Node community to stop talking about the issue out of "respect", with no plea for the exiled individual to return to the community. Isaac was a key individual involved in this drama, defending the purge by claiming he'd received an abusive email from the exiled employee.