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I'm not expert in Agile, but from the pieces I used, and ones I read, Agile is not something you can do "perfect". Agile is not something you can follow to the

I'm not expert in Agile, but from the pieces I used, and ones I read, Agile is not something you can do "perfect". Agile is not something you can follow to the letter, like you said it's a bunch of processes that help you succeed. Which ones to apply, and more importantly, how to apply each process is highly dependent on the circumstances.

UK-AL 13y ago
Most people call it a framework, rather than a process. You could call it an empirical control process, which means it adjust based on previous history.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Agile is not something you can follow to the letter, like you said it's a bunch of processes that help you succeed. Agile is not a bunch of processes. Agile is a philosphical orientation that guides how you do work, including selection and evaluation of processes in light of current team and mission.
wpietri 13y ago
In my view it's a family of processes. The way we got the term Agile is that a bunch of people in the '90s were experimenting with processes that were less insane that the waterfall approach that had come to predominate. DSDM, FDD, Extreme Programming, Scrum, and probably others that I'm forgetting now. All of those people got together and said, "Hey, we all have something in common. What is it?" The answer to that was the Agile Manifesto: http://agilemanifesto.org/ http://agilemanifesto.org/ Agile is to an actual process what a subdivision is to a house. If you say you live in the subdivision but are not in an actual house, then you're just wandering around camping in back yards and parks. I agree that a given process is a collection of practices, and that one can compose different practices into a process, sort of the same way a talented chef can walk into a farmer's market, see what's on offer, and compose a balanced, nutritious, and tasty menu on the fly. However, in practice, what "doing Agile" mainly means is what happens when an energetic but unskilled 7-year-old decides to be helpful and make dinner. Maybe you get a dinner composed entirely of candy. Maybe they use the stove and make something that is a mud-pie version of a gourmet meal. That isn't to say that people can't create a good process out of raw practices. It's just that doing it is an expert-level activity, and it requires an immense amount of dedication, experimentation, and careful thinking. That's not what I see when I ask after shops that are "doing Agile". That phrase seems to be used exclusively by people who don't want to think hard about process, and just want to cargo-cult and half-ass their way through things because they're focused on getting a project out the door and/or pleasing the HiPPOs.

UK-AL 13y ago

Most people call it a framework, rather than a process. You could call it an empirical control process, which means it adjust based on previous history.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Agile is not something you can follow to the letter, like you said it's a bunch of processes that help you succeed. Agile is not a bunch of processes. Agile is a philosphical orientation that guides how you do work, including selection and evaluation of processes in light of current team and mission.

wpietri 13y ago

In my view it's a family of processes. The way we got the term Agile is that a bunch of people in the '90s were experimenting with processes that were less insane that the waterfall approach that had come to predominate. DSDM, FDD, Extreme Programming, Scrum, and probably others that I'm forgetting now. All of those people got together and said, "Hey, we all have something in common. What is it?" The answer to that was the Agile Manifesto: http://agilemanifesto.org/ http://agilemanifesto.org/ Agile is to an actual process what a subdivision is to a house. If you say you live in the subdivision but are not in an actual house, then you're just wandering around camping in back yards and parks. I agree that a given process is a collection of practices, and that one can compose different practices into a process, sort of the same way a talented chef can walk into a farmer's market, see what's on offer, and compose a balanced, nutritious, and tasty menu on the fly. However, in practice, what "doing Agile" mainly means is what happens when an energetic but unskilled 7-year-old decides to be helpful and make dinner. Maybe you get a dinner composed entirely of candy. Maybe they use the stove and make something that is a mud-pie version of a gourmet meal. That isn't to say that people can't create a good process out of raw practices. It's just that doing it is an expert-level activity, and it requires an immense amount of dedication, experimentation, and careful thinking. That's not what I see when I ask after shops that are "doing Agile". That phrase seems to be used exclusively by people who don't want to think hard about process, and just want to cargo-cult and half-ass their way through things because they're focused on getting a project out the door and/or pleasing the HiPPOs.