7 ms·

The solution is for your phone to not be a phone. Strip out the baseband entirely, use usb or wifi to a 4G LTE dongle, do VoIP. Extra benefit that you can expl

by rdl 13y ago

The solution is for your phone to not be a phone. Strip out the baseband entirely, use usb or wifi to a 4G LTE dongle, do VoIP. Extra benefit that you can explicitly know when you're radiating (and thus being location-tracked). Blackphone is pretty lame, IMO. There's something better coming from a trusted source in weeks, and plenty of work being done on the "there is no phone" phone concept.

tucosan 13y ago
> There's something better coming from a trusted source in weeks... Could you provide more concrete info on what you are referencing there?
- rdl 13y ago
  Sorry, no -- it's not my product to announce. By way of validation, it's something I'm planning to use personally, even though it doesn't go as far as I'd ultimately like, until something better exists (which I might be involved in; unclear if client devices are the right focus since end users are so picky about non-security aspects of them, and for me, iOS is generally good against non-NSA threats, and NSA isn't my personal adversary.)
ABNWZ 13y ago
>There's something better Is this IndiePhone by Aral Balkan?
- rdl 13y ago
  I've never heard of this project or person, but it looks interesting too.
XorNot 13y ago
Except nobody wants to carry a dongle around in their pocket. Your security measure is useless if it's too much hassle to use day-to-day because most of the time (closing in on 100%) it does not matter.
- nfoz 13y ago
  I carry a SIM card around...
bwooce 13y ago
"Strip out the baseband" of a dongle and you won't have a device that can connect to the network, authenticate, shift cells or anything else. It's like stripping the firmware off your disk drive. Fully support the initiative for an open baseband. One reason it's not open is the (fairly legit) fear that intentional and unintentional DoS attacks would occur, affecting everyone in the area. It's really really simple to be an obnoxious cellular network citizen and it's pretty damn hard to police. Baseband bugs that impact networks are common too due to the complexity. I saw a function point analysis of GSM vs 3G once, seem to remember 1-2 orders of magnitudes difference. Ahh Function Points, you flawed devil of a management metric.
- rdl 13y ago
  The idea is that your "high side" device is a phone, with all your apps, etc. It communicates over a well defined interface (USB seems like the best, but bt or wifi could be adequate given certain considerations) to a fully-functional mifi dongle or whatever which does normal cell/public-wifi/etc. functionality. No compromise of the external cell modem can get at high side data. The current "baseband can DMA your main device" is absurd; security processors (only on iOS and BB and maybe WP, really) help a little, but not enough. Yes, it is two small boxes right now, but there's no reason you couldn't build a "baseband firewall" which puts baseband in one area, a firewall in between, and the regular phone, with only a well defined open interface in between.
  - dobbsbob 13y ago
    Snapdragon and every other baseband coming out has them on an 'all in one' chip which is application CPU and baseband sharing direct memory. Unless you have a microscope you can't build a hw firewall. Cryptophone uses an older Samsung to do this but has no SIM protection. The firewall isn't foolproof either it only detects extended use of the baseband cpu without the application cpu being busy then shuts down the device, which makes it a brick open to denial of service. A hardened Android build is fine for most shady activity and avoiding dragnet surveillance. If you are a drug lord or foreign spy use a laptop or tablet with ostel or silent circle, internal mic removed and running hardened free software, your dongle should have TurboSIM or similar wrapper that can be coded to reject OTA updates and not reply to silent tracking SMS. Marlinespike is also working on a new Whispercore, I have a forensics resistant project, and there is of course Cryptophone GSMK. Is the project you're talking about the build that runs Xen then boots Android in phony isolation because the snapdragon chip can still access memory. Another problem is simply walking around with 2 phones which is an opsec indicator for feds that you are up to something and req targeted surveillance. They have full automated access to every cell tower db to look for this as per snowden docs dumped on cell meta data
Canada 13y ago
Do tell, what's coming in a few weeks?

by rdl 13y ago

tucosan 13y ago

> There's something better coming from a trusted source in weeks... Could you provide more concrete info on what you are referencing there?

rdl 13y ago
Sorry, no -- it's not my product to announce. By way of validation, it's something I'm planning to use personally, even though it doesn't go as far as I'd ultimately like, until something better exists (which I might be involved in; unclear if client devices are the right focus since end users are so picky about non-security aspects of them, and for me, iOS is generally good against non-NSA threats, and NSA isn't my personal adversary.)

ABNWZ 13y ago

>There's something better Is this IndiePhone by Aral Balkan?

rdl 13y ago
I've never heard of this project or person, but it looks interesting too.

XorNot 13y ago

Except nobody wants to carry a dongle around in their pocket. Your security measure is useless if it's too much hassle to use day-to-day because most of the time (closing in on 100%) it does not matter.

nfoz 13y ago
I carry a SIM card around...

bwooce 13y ago

"Strip out the baseband" of a dongle and you won't have a device that can connect to the network, authenticate, shift cells or anything else. It's like stripping the firmware off your disk drive. Fully support the initiative for an open baseband. One reason it's not open is the (fairly legit) fear that intentional and unintentional DoS attacks would occur, affecting everyone in the area. It's really really simple to be an obnoxious cellular network citizen and it's pretty damn hard to police. Baseband bugs that impact networks are common too due to the complexity. I saw a function point analysis of GSM vs 3G once, seem to remember 1-2 orders of magnitudes difference. Ahh Function Points, you flawed devil of a management metric.

rdl 13y ago
The idea is that your "high side" device is a phone, with all your apps, etc. It communicates over a well defined interface (USB seems like the best, but bt or wifi could be adequate given certain considerations) to a fully-functional mifi dongle or whatever which does normal cell/public-wifi/etc. functionality. No compromise of the external cell modem can get at high side data. The current "baseband can DMA your main device" is absurd; security processors (only on iOS and BB and maybe WP, really) help a little, but not enough. Yes, it is two small boxes right now, but there's no reason you couldn't build a "baseband firewall" which puts baseband in one area, a firewall in between, and the regular phone, with only a well defined open interface in between.
- dobbsbob 13y ago
  Snapdragon and every other baseband coming out has them on an 'all in one' chip which is application CPU and baseband sharing direct memory. Unless you have a microscope you can't build a hw firewall. Cryptophone uses an older Samsung to do this but has no SIM protection. The firewall isn't foolproof either it only detects extended use of the baseband cpu without the application cpu being busy then shuts down the device, which makes it a brick open to denial of service. A hardened Android build is fine for most shady activity and avoiding dragnet surveillance. If you are a drug lord or foreign spy use a laptop or tablet with ostel or silent circle, internal mic removed and running hardened free software, your dongle should have TurboSIM or similar wrapper that can be coded to reject OTA updates and not reply to silent tracking SMS. Marlinespike is also working on a new Whispercore, I have a forensics resistant project, and there is of course Cryptophone GSMK. Is the project you're talking about the build that runs Xen then boots Android in phony isolation because the snapdragon chip can still access memory. Another problem is simply walking around with 2 phones which is an opsec indicator for feds that you are up to something and req targeted surveillance. They have full automated access to every cell tower db to look for this as per snowden docs dumped on cell meta data

Canada 13y ago

Do tell, what's coming in a few weeks?