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As a parent, I have learned that not every mind at every age is equipped to process every bit of information out there without some guidance. Misinformation can

As a parent, I have learned that not every mind at every age is equipped to process every bit of information out there without some guidance. Misinformation can be dangerous. Information out of context can be dangerous. Information in ill-prepared hands can be dangerous. The word is mightier than the sword - Ahiqar The feature is called "supervised users" not "locked in a tower users". So information can flow however the supervisor wishes. It could be simply a "monitor & discuss" role where seeing the user's browser history gives the supervisor information about what the user has been reading and they initiate a conversation about it. It doesn't have to lead to blocking and restriction. It can be another tool for parents to use to teach their children.

superuser2 13y ago
> where seeing the user's browser history gives the supervisor information about what the user has been reading and they initiate a conversation about it. Surveillance has a chilling effect and parent-child surveillance is no different. If I had to do this, I would have just avoided the internet as much as possible. I suspect most kids beyond age 9/10 are roughly the same. I would never have learned to program, never have started reading HN, never have browsed Wikipedia except for specific queries. I would never have acquired the information or communication and technical skills I currently possess. I'd be a completely different and vastly inferior person looking at a much less interesting future. > It doesn't have to lead to blocking and restriction "Monitor and supervise" is orders of magnitude worse than content filtering. This approach forces children to block themselves from having any sort of individual experience. If your child is even slightly introverted and is old enough not to not want to share every second with you, "monitor and supervise internet activity" is equal to "learn about and engage with the world around you as little as possible." It sends a message that by default, information is bad - any time you do seek information, you know you'll have to justify your curiosity. This doesn't just apply to objectionable content, it applies to everything. I was happy to show my parents my finished projects and even wrote a few specifically for family. If I were getting interrogated, incompetently, about every intermediate step ("Why did you install django-south? What's a database? What's a schema? What's a query? What's a function? Oh, is that like a ___? No, mom, go away.") I would have just watched mindless TV instead. Could you imagine knowing that you will have to discuss every link you follow and every Google search you enter with anyone, let alone your parents? That's horrifying.
- ccernaf 13y ago
  Why do you think that you would have to explain to your parents every single link you visit? Surely parents will use their discretion, just as they do with every other decision their child makes. There is a difference between the government-citizen surveillance and parent-child surveillance.
  - FBT 13y ago
    The analogy between the spying government and the spying parent is a good one, and I am interested to hear how you say that it's different. In both cases, a figure of authority (legitimate authority!) spys on you, pro[poradly for your own good. (Maybe even really for your own good! Just because the NSA's spying hasn't actually successfully foiled any terrorist plots yet doesn't mean that all spying programs of that sort are ineffectual...) The one difference that I can see (and it's not an unimportant one) is that a good parent is open about what they are doing, and talks to the kid, gets the kids opinions. While organizations like the NSA try their hardest to make sure the citizenry don't even know that they're being spied on. This is a way in which a parent's spying might be not quite as bad. However, remember that at least in theory the USA is a democracy, while a family is best described as a dictatorship. In the ideal world where the US government actually listened to its citizens and engaged in discourse with them, the USG would have by far the moral high ground over parents, even over parents who run a benevolent dictatorship where they actually listen the kid and make family policy accordingly, as a benevolent dictatorship still has certain problems when compared to a true democracy.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  I've been tasked with raising freshly hatched human beings. My task is to do my best to make sure that these tiny humans turn out to be worthwhile, contributing adult humans. I supervised them during their baths as infants/toddlers because an infant/toddler doesn't know yet that you can drown in very shallow water or that hot water can burn. I supervised them when we first took the training wheels off the bike because balance is hard, crashes happen and need attending to. I supervise them when we're at the playground because not every human in the world is a worthwhile, contributing human and some of them like to do bad things. I supervised them while learning to use a knife because knives can hurt if used incorrectly. I don't understand why people are so confused about a parent supervising a child's computer use. I'm not some fucking idiot that is going to interrogate my kid about why she Googled "Mark Twain". But if I noticed that my 6 year old had been reading up on how to cook Meth, I might want to have a few words with him. It is my job as a parent to make sure he understands that cooking Meth is illegal and dangerous. That doesn't mean he can't have a science kit for his birthday. Raising children is more than keeping a roof over them and feeding them. It is about letting them experience things on their own but stepping in when guidance is needed. But everyone is free to raise their children the best they see fit.

superuser2 13y ago

> where seeing the user's browser history gives the supervisor information about what the user has been reading and they initiate a conversation about it. Surveillance has a chilling effect and parent-child surveillance is no different. If I had to do this, I would have just avoided the internet as much as possible. I suspect most kids beyond age 9/10 are roughly the same. I would never have learned to program, never have started reading HN, never have browsed Wikipedia except for specific queries. I would never have acquired the information or communication and technical skills I currently possess. I'd be a completely different and vastly inferior person looking at a much less interesting future. > It doesn't have to lead to blocking and restriction "Monitor and supervise" is orders of magnitude worse than content filtering. This approach forces children to block themselves from having any sort of individual experience. If your child is even slightly introverted and is old enough not to not want to share every second with you, "monitor and supervise internet activity" is equal to "learn about and engage with the world around you as little as possible." It sends a message that by default, information is bad - any time you do seek information, you know you'll have to justify your curiosity. This doesn't just apply to objectionable content, it applies to everything. I was happy to show my parents my finished projects and even wrote a few specifically for family. If I were getting interrogated, incompetently, about every intermediate step ("Why did you install django-south? What's a database? What's a schema? What's a query? What's a function? Oh, is that like a ___? No, mom, go away.") I would have just watched mindless TV instead. Could you imagine knowing that you will have to discuss every link you follow and every Google search you enter with anyone, let alone your parents? That's horrifying.

ccernaf 13y ago
Why do you think that you would have to explain to your parents every single link you visit? Surely parents will use their discretion, just as they do with every other decision their child makes. There is a difference between the government-citizen surveillance and parent-child surveillance.
- FBT 13y ago
  The analogy between the spying government and the spying parent is a good one, and I am interested to hear how you say that it's different. In both cases, a figure of authority (legitimate authority!) spys on you, pro[poradly for your own good. (Maybe even really for your own good! Just because the NSA's spying hasn't actually successfully foiled any terrorist plots yet doesn't mean that all spying programs of that sort are ineffectual...) The one difference that I can see (and it's not an unimportant one) is that a good parent is open about what they are doing, and talks to the kid, gets the kids opinions. While organizations like the NSA try their hardest to make sure the citizenry don't even know that they're being spied on. This is a way in which a parent's spying might be not quite as bad. However, remember that at least in theory the USA is a democracy, while a family is best described as a dictatorship. In the ideal world where the US government actually listened to its citizens and engaged in discourse with them, the USG would have by far the moral high ground over parents, even over parents who run a benevolent dictatorship where they actually listen the kid and make family policy accordingly, as a benevolent dictatorship still has certain problems when compared to a true democracy.
jack-r-abbit 13y ago
I've been tasked with raising freshly hatched human beings. My task is to do my best to make sure that these tiny humans turn out to be worthwhile, contributing adult humans. I supervised them during their baths as infants/toddlers because an infant/toddler doesn't know yet that you can drown in very shallow water or that hot water can burn. I supervised them when we first took the training wheels off the bike because balance is hard, crashes happen and need attending to. I supervise them when we're at the playground because not every human in the world is a worthwhile, contributing human and some of them like to do bad things. I supervised them while learning to use a knife because knives can hurt if used incorrectly. I don't understand why people are so confused about a parent supervising a child's computer use. I'm not some fucking idiot that is going to interrogate my kid about why she Googled "Mark Twain". But if I noticed that my 6 year old had been reading up on how to cook Meth, I might want to have a few words with him. It is my job as a parent to make sure he understands that cooking Meth is illegal and dangerous. That doesn't mean he can't have a science kit for his birthday. Raising children is more than keeping a roof over them and feeding them. It is about letting them experience things on their own but stepping in when guidance is needed. But everyone is free to raise their children the best they see fit.