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Like I wrote in my reply to "DanielBMarkham" above, I've actually heard people say that they aren't paying for someone else's health care, and that they simply

Like I wrote in my reply to "DanielBMarkham" above, I've actually heard people say that they aren't paying for someone else's health care, and that they simply don't care what happens to people without it. That's just a personal anecdote, but I'm sure the people who said that to me aren't the only ones out there. I understand the real-world economics of the problem, but I think the real underlying issue is that many (not all, but a significant) number of Americans have simply become too selfish over the past 100 years or so. Those people simply aren't willing to sacrifice a little bit of their time and money to build a stronger community, because they don't see that they have anything to gain. I also think that however this thing works out, it's going to become such a bureaucratic mess that it really won't be worth anything except to the most desperate people. The worst part is that we'll still spend the money, and it'll all get funneled away into mega-corporations without any real improvement in anyone's standard of living.

javanix 17y ago
Unfortunately, there just isn't anything you or anyone else is going to be able to do to combat people's "selfishness". It may not be the way we want things to happen, but nobody is going to be able to convince every facet of the population to give up portions (however small) of their livelihoods to "build a stronger community" for exactly the reason you mentioned: nobody can see that they have anything to gain.
- tptacek 17y ago
  But because insurance works best when the risk pools are largest, and irrational behavior among consumers (ie, spending zero in your 20s and free-riding in your 50s) will prevent those pools from being built organically, this seems like a perfectly sensible place for the government to apply regulation.
  - javanix 17y ago
    Oh, I completely agree on the regulation front - health care in this country is broken right now. I'm not in agreement with the current Administration's plans to fix it, but something needs to be done. I just think that when people start claiming that "selfishness" is the underlying problem with our broken health care system, they're ignoring the pressures that brought on this "moral decline". It's really no different than the far-right nutjobs who blame the state of our inner cities on the "laziness" of the people living there.
jerf 17y ago
That's part of what I mean; "I don't want to pay for it" is simply one facet of the limited resource side, just phrased oddly. Moreover, you call it "selfish" but that is leaping to conclusions. Some people really can't pay for others, and the fact is that all of us have limits on how much more we can pay for. I'm not entirely averse to some contribution, but I do have my limits, both to what I'm comfortable with and what to what I can sustain even in theory, and in light of the creation of a system disconnected from price signals and with no particular incentive to stop consuming it's not "selfish" to become concerned; it's just rational. I think a lot of these people, though by no means all, have far more complicated motivations and opinions than you think, and only a handful are really, truly saying "screw you all". (I think it's nonzero, but that gets into the "not worth listening to" class of people. These marginal people exist for all topics, though it's important to not classify large numbers of people that way.) Most people are not going to eloquently describe their full belief system, anymore than I have my own here, and even if they did, you probably wouldn't listen. (Any more than I would; this is not a criticism.)

javanix 17y ago

Unfortunately, there just isn't anything you or anyone else is going to be able to do to combat people's "selfishness". It may not be the way we want things to happen, but nobody is going to be able to convince every facet of the population to give up portions (however small) of their livelihoods to "build a stronger community" for exactly the reason you mentioned: nobody can see that they have anything to gain.

tptacek 17y ago
But because insurance works best when the risk pools are largest, and irrational behavior among consumers (ie, spending zero in your 20s and free-riding in your 50s) will prevent those pools from being built organically, this seems like a perfectly sensible place for the government to apply regulation.
- javanix 17y ago
  Oh, I completely agree on the regulation front - health care in this country is broken right now. I'm not in agreement with the current Administration's plans to fix it, but something needs to be done. I just think that when people start claiming that "selfishness" is the underlying problem with our broken health care system, they're ignoring the pressures that brought on this "moral decline". It's really no different than the far-right nutjobs who blame the state of our inner cities on the "laziness" of the people living there.

jerf 17y ago

That's part of what I mean; "I don't want to pay for it" is simply one facet of the limited resource side, just phrased oddly. Moreover, you call it "selfish" but that is leaping to conclusions. Some people really can't pay for others, and the fact is that all of us have limits on how much more we can pay for. I'm not entirely averse to some contribution, but I do have my limits, both to what I'm comfortable with and what to what I can sustain even in theory, and in light of the creation of a system disconnected from price signals and with no particular incentive to stop consuming it's not "selfish" to become concerned; it's just rational. I think a lot of these people, though by no means all, have far more complicated motivations and opinions than you think, and only a handful are really, truly saying "screw you all". (I think it's nonzero, but that gets into the "not worth listening to" class of people. These marginal people exist for all topics, though it's important to not classify large numbers of people that way.) Most people are not going to eloquently describe their full belief system, anymore than I have my own here, and even if they did, you probably wouldn't listen. (Any more than I would; this is not a criticism.)