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The German government was hardly really negotiating a no-spy treaty. They benefit too much from the exchange with the US (at least that's what they think). Reme

The German government was hardly really negotiating a no-spy treaty. They benefit too much from the exchange with the US (at least that's what they think). Remember, the NSA is not supposed to spy on US citizens, just as the German BND is not supposed to spy on Germans. So they spy on each other's citizens and exchange the information. So far so good for Merkel and friends. What probably upsetted them was that the German government was spied upon, too. Also, they were just second-grade allies, and the US was probably trading information with the UK for example, which they didn't share with the Germans (see the "Five Eyes" agreements). But it's hard to believe that any of this is news to the German government, if their intelligence agencies are any of their money worth. So the big question is, why do they tolerate being spied on? I know, diplomacy is complicated, and you have to make a lot of delicate compromises, and there is a lot that you can't see from outside. Nevertheless... Espionage is already punishable in Germany. If a German citizen is involved, they might even be charged with treason. If I were Merkel, I would just casually mention the possibility of pressing charges in this case (you can file charges against anonymous in Germany), and use this as leverage e.g. when negotiating trade agreements.

PythonicAlpha 13y ago
All is right, except the last paragraph. That is just theoretical stuff. Yes, theoretical there might be something like "treason" in some old law book .... But, I don't remember one "treason" prosecution in my life time in Germany, with exception maybe to the DDR-Spy with Willi Brand as chancellor ... wow is this long ago! Also, I think there should be filed charges against many people in Germanys current government because they don't stop the US to spy on German people and companies openly. But nothing happens. Why, because in Germany there is no independent judiciary at all. There will be no prosecution without federal prosecutor, but all of them have to obey the government -- so no member of government or top politician will ever be prosecuted in Germany, whatever evil they do against the country or the people. Germans should start understanding, that they don't live in freedom at all. It is just a mock-up.
- junto 13y ago
  > Germans should start understanding, that they don't live in freedom at all. It is just a mock-up. Replace Germans with "Everyone".
  - PythonicAlpha 13y ago
    Ok, you are right. But I wanted to make a statement about Germans in particular.
    - junto 13y ago
      I know. I was just going out of my way to be depressing. :-)

PythonicAlpha 13y ago

All is right, except the last paragraph. That is just theoretical stuff. Yes, theoretical there might be something like "treason" in some old law book .... But, I don't remember one "treason" prosecution in my life time in Germany, with exception maybe to the DDR-Spy with Willi Brand as chancellor ... wow is this long ago! Also, I think there should be filed charges against many people in Germanys current government because they don't stop the US to spy on German people and companies openly. But nothing happens. Why, because in Germany there is no independent judiciary at all. There will be no prosecution without federal prosecutor, but all of them have to obey the government -- so no member of government or top politician will ever be prosecuted in Germany, whatever evil they do against the country or the people. Germans should start understanding, that they don't live in freedom at all. It is just a mock-up.

junto 13y ago
> Germans should start understanding, that they don't live in freedom at all. It is just a mock-up. Replace Germans with "Everyone".
- PythonicAlpha 13y ago
  Ok, you are right. But I wanted to make a statement about Germans in particular.
  - junto 13y ago
    I know. I was just going out of my way to be depressing. :-)