> My point is that there is no single person at the helm twirling their mustache and laughing as their plan comes to fruition That's all well and good, but you

> My point is that there is no single person at the helm twirling their mustache and laughing as their plan comes to fruition That's all well and good, but you're arguing against a claim I didn't make. > If allowed to exist, the surveillance state will be put to use by malicious people (perhaps even a dictatorship / police state), but it's doubtful that it's part of some grand design by a single person (or group) to bring about Fascism in America. I do claim, though, that there is a group of people with an intent at least roughly similar to that. Obviously, I can't prove that claim to you, but we can certainly make observations about what's going on and conclusions based on them. It's really not difficult to see the signs: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment - and that's from way back in 2007! If you look at history, you can see that there is essentially a blueprint for turning an open society into a dictatorship. That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always effective. > There is no doubt that the people that make up the NSA, and the US military feel that their job is to protect America. Sure, there are lots of people in there with good intentions. That doesn't change anything about what's going on overall, and why.