4 ms·

The Co-Founder of Typesafe, Paul Phillips, hates Scala too. Working on the compiler seems to have driven him mad (he says this, not me, but I don't disagree bas

The Co-Founder of Typesafe, Paul Phillips, hates Scala too. Working on the compiler seems to have driven him mad (he says this, not me, but I don't disagree based on this performance.) http://parleys.com/play/528cbfc3e4b084eb60ac78f2/about http://parleys.com/play/528cbfc3e4b084eb60ac78f2/about

johnmurray_io 13y ago
He also claims at the end that he's going to keep using Scala on his new venture because it's the best tool he has, at the moment.
- michaelwww 13y ago
  There's some dispute over who said "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results."
  - johnmurray_io 13y ago
    He may be a bit interesting, but based on your assumption that he "hates" Scala seems to indicate that he is a very angry person (given that he still prefers Scala to other alternatives). I think he is emotionally invested in Scala and upset that it didn't turn out exactly how he would have like to see it, but "hate" seems like a strong (possibly incorrect) word to use.
    - michaelwww 13y ago
      I agree, hate is too strong a word. I was reacting to his very emotional presentation. I could feel his pain.
lmm 13y ago
This is proper constructive criticism. The presentation is terrible, but everything he says is right. Including the part where Scala is still the best tool available today, even though it could be so much better than it is.
melling 13y ago
He says you need to be a "rocket scientist" to change the compiler. We have computers that are thousands of times faster than the 1980's but Turbo Pascal, then, could compile tens of thousands of lines per second on that hardware. Scala is so complicated it takes minutes to compile large code bases. Anyone remember what the claims were for Turbo Pascal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  They need to take a lesson from the OCaml or Haxe devs. Both have blazing fast compilers that create efficient code for every platform known to man... And both are very feature-rich languages.
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    He says the Scala compiler will never be fast...
- pjmlp 13y ago
  > Anyone remember what the claims were for Turbo Pascal? According to Embarcadero Turbo Pascal memorial page, Turbo Pascal 5.5 was compiling 34,000 lines/minute! http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20803 http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20803 Having been introduced to Turbo Pascal line of compilers, spoiled my expectations in regard to C and C++ when I got to learn them afterwards. :)
jfager 13y ago
Him switching from being neck-deep in compiler issues to actually using the language in anger on whatever it is he's doing now might end up being really good for the language. His twitter stream has started filling up with wtf's and really good bug reports.
yapcguy 13y ago
It does look like he's about to have a breakdown. Hopefully giving the talk was cathartic and helped him relieve his frustrations.
agentultra 13y ago
Much of what he desires out of his ideal programming environment sounds eerily like CL or SmallTalk (though possibly closer to CL). The textual representation of CL code IS the AST. You can change it to be whatever you want. You can programmatically manipulate the code objects represented by that tree using the same forms and idioms you use on plain old data. There's very little magic that happens "under the hood." I can't even imagine how awesome the CL ecosystem could be with someone like Paul on its side. sigh I've been putting in some time to learn Scala but he elucidates much of what bugs me about the language in this talk. I'm hoping to see a, "Good Parts" book but I'm not sure if that's a good sign.
joeblau 13y ago
Interesting talk. A lot of things he's talking about are just general good programming practices.

johnmurray_io 13y ago

He also claims at the end that he's going to keep using Scala on his new venture because it's the best tool he has, at the moment.

michaelwww 13y ago
There's some dispute over who said "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results."
- johnmurray_io 13y ago
  He may be a bit interesting, but based on your assumption that he "hates" Scala seems to indicate that he is a very angry person (given that he still prefers Scala to other alternatives). I think he is emotionally invested in Scala and upset that it didn't turn out exactly how he would have like to see it, but "hate" seems like a strong (possibly incorrect) word to use.
  - michaelwww 13y ago
    I agree, hate is too strong a word. I was reacting to his very emotional presentation. I could feel his pain.

lmm 13y ago

This is proper constructive criticism. The presentation is terrible, but everything he says is right. Including the part where Scala is still the best tool available today, even though it could be so much better than it is.

melling 13y ago

He says you need to be a "rocket scientist" to change the compiler. We have computers that are thousands of times faster than the 1980's but Turbo Pascal, then, could compile tens of thousands of lines per second on that hardware. Scala is so complicated it takes minutes to compile large code bases. Anyone remember what the claims were for Turbo Pascal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal

Mikeb85 13y ago
They need to take a lesson from the OCaml or Haxe devs. Both have blazing fast compilers that create efficient code for every platform known to man... And both are very feature-rich languages.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  He says the Scala compiler will never be fast...
pjmlp 13y ago
> Anyone remember what the claims were for Turbo Pascal? According to Embarcadero Turbo Pascal memorial page, Turbo Pascal 5.5 was compiling 34,000 lines/minute! http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20803 http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20803 Having been introduced to Turbo Pascal line of compilers, spoiled my expectations in regard to C and C++ when I got to learn them afterwards. :)

jfager 13y ago

Him switching from being neck-deep in compiler issues to actually using the language in anger on whatever it is he's doing now might end up being really good for the language. His twitter stream has started filling up with wtf's and really good bug reports.

yapcguy 13y ago

It does look like he's about to have a breakdown. Hopefully giving the talk was cathartic and helped him relieve his frustrations.

agentultra 13y ago

Much of what he desires out of his ideal programming environment sounds eerily like CL or SmallTalk (though possibly closer to CL). The textual representation of CL code IS the AST. You can change it to be whatever you want. You can programmatically manipulate the code objects represented by that tree using the same forms and idioms you use on plain old data. There's very little magic that happens "under the hood." I can't even imagine how awesome the CL ecosystem could be with someone like Paul on its side. sigh I've been putting in some time to learn Scala but he elucidates much of what bugs me about the language in this talk. I'm hoping to see a, "Good Parts" book but I'm not sure if that's a good sign.

joeblau 13y ago

Interesting talk. A lot of things he's talking about are just general good programming practices.