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What about the ability to know when someone is in your home and when someone is not? If Google records that data (say, to be able to provide you with a handy c

What about the ability to know when someone is in your home and when someone is not? If Google records that data (say, to be able to provide you with a handy chart of your energy use and some ways to improve it), the potential I am more worried about is the fact that the data exists makes it possible to subpoena.

Karunamon 13y ago
The "bad guys" (I assume we're talking about government types) can park outside your house or just lean on the electric/gas company for that info already. Or considering how some people broadcast their location with Twitter/Foursquare/Facebook/Etc, just watch that.
- chrisrhoden 13y ago
  Parking outside your house requires that they have enough interest in you to dedicate resources to the task. The electric/gas meter in your house is not literally designed to detect when there is a human home and when there is not.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Nest really isn't great for that either, aside from what I'd call an adaptive timer based on how you adjust it. But if you have access to someone's live power usage, you probably have a good idea of their schedule. On top of that, your phone makes a much better tracker than your thermostat.
    - mbrameld 13y ago
      > Nest really isn't great for that either, aside from what I'd call an adaptive timer based on how you adjust it. What about the auto-away feature?
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        Depends entirely on where it's located in your home. I've tried and sold a Nest because my home thermostat is upstairs, and the only thing upstairs are bedrooms. During the day, there's nothing to trip the sensor. Your phone makes a much better tracker for such things.
        dangrossman 13y ago
        What did you replace it with? The nice thing about connected devices is that, well, they're connected. My Nest is also not somewhere I typically walk by during the day. That's alright, I have a $10 motion sensor in another room I do use, and in 5 minutes set up a rule on my home automation hub that sets my Nest to "home" when that sensor is tripped. That's only possible since Nest is internet-connected and has an API.
        Karunamon 13y ago
        Nothing equivalent. I just replaced it with the standard programmable timer thermostat that was there before I got the Nest. It was partly the fact that the presence detection wasn't working for me, and partly the fact that I had a sudden cash flow problem and was still within the return window :) I haven't invested the time into setting up a proper home automation rig yet, but it is on my to-do list.
frogpelt 13y ago
This is already incredibly easy with Android in the fold. They know your WiFi passwords. Of course they know when you're home.
- mcintyre1994 13y ago
  Android tracks your location for Google Now too. Actually they handily name your home location "home", and let you set it if they get it wrong. I've heard Apple do something similar now as well, so we can probably assume the average person's location history is easily subpoenable through Google or Apple.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I'm not really worried about subpoena of my data- if the courts want it, they will get it. I'd be more concerned about what private companies are going to do with it. I know the gov't is the big bogeyman in most people's minds, but sometimes I swear private corps. have even less accountability than the gov't.
- lightbritefight 13y ago
  This all breaks down to one thing. The government can detain you indefinitely and is equipped to kill you. No private enterprise can do either of these things legally. The government holds deadly force. Private enterprise is going to do some horrifying things with your data, but barring a cyperpunk dystopia, it lacks the capability to end your life.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    What exactly are you wishing for here? That the government be prevented from accessing information on you under all circumstances? To my knowledge, a subpoena is usually pretty reasonable circumstances, and it was subpoenas specifically that we were discussing. If you feel otherwise, I would like to hear more.
    - VexXtreme 13y ago
      Subpoenas are irrelevant when they are siphoning all the data they can get their hands on through programs like PRISM enabled by Patriot act. And yes, while it doesn't matter what they can and cannot do with your data now (unless you're a criminal not much, obviously), if the government ever becomes excessively authoritarian and dictatorial, keep in mind they can retroactively go through all the data they ever gathered on you and find something to string you up with.
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    Wait until the day that Google announces that they're opening up their entire database of search histories in the name of transparency. It will be an opt-out initiative where those wishing to keep their data out of the open will have to pay a monthly "processing and maintenance fee" to "manually" remove your entries from the database.
wyager 13y ago
Exactly. I don't care if the government knows when I'm home (they can already figure that out), but imagine if Google's database of Nest info got leaked. Burglars could look at the database and say "Oh hey, look, no one's home right now."
- DominikR 13y ago
  I guess that the threat of being abducted by aliens is higher than burglars successfully hacking Google to get information on when you are not at home.
  - wyager 13y ago
    Databases get leaked publicly all the time. Look at the recent instagram leak.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  This acquisition makes me a little bit nervous, but I have to point out that the database can be stolen or leaked no matter who is responsible for it.
- vdaniuk 13y ago
  Do you really think burglars could not get their hands on leaked government agency database? This is just another excuse to throw feces at Google, and HN commenters just don't miss any possible opportunity to do that.
  - diydsp 13y ago
    strawman and goalposts. PP said google's database, not government databases. google data breach in last 30 days: http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/passwords-stolen/ http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/password... inside job at home security company in last year: http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html
    - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
DannyBee 13y ago
Nest already recorded temperature changes so they could give you a handy chart. So it was already subpoenaable?
wojt_eu 13y ago
Google already knows your location. Readings from your home electronics only enrich this data and make it more reliable.

Karunamon 13y ago

The "bad guys" (I assume we're talking about government types) can park outside your house or just lean on the electric/gas company for that info already. Or considering how some people broadcast their location with Twitter/Foursquare/Facebook/Etc, just watch that.

chrisrhoden 13y ago
Parking outside your house requires that they have enough interest in you to dedicate resources to the task. The electric/gas meter in your house is not literally designed to detect when there is a human home and when there is not.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  Nest really isn't great for that either, aside from what I'd call an adaptive timer based on how you adjust it. But if you have access to someone's live power usage, you probably have a good idea of their schedule. On top of that, your phone makes a much better tracker than your thermostat.
  - mbrameld 13y ago
    > Nest really isn't great for that either, aside from what I'd call an adaptive timer based on how you adjust it. What about the auto-away feature?
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      Depends entirely on where it's located in your home. I've tried and sold a Nest because my home thermostat is upstairs, and the only thing upstairs are bedrooms. During the day, there's nothing to trip the sensor. Your phone makes a much better tracker for such things.
      - dangrossman 13y ago
        What did you replace it with? The nice thing about connected devices is that, well, they're connected. My Nest is also not somewhere I typically walk by during the day. That's alright, I have a $10 motion sensor in another room I do use, and in 5 minutes set up a rule on my home automation hub that sets my Nest to "home" when that sensor is tripped. That's only possible since Nest is internet-connected and has an API.
        Karunamon 13y ago
        Nothing equivalent. I just replaced it with the standard programmable timer thermostat that was there before I got the Nest. It was partly the fact that the presence detection wasn't working for me, and partly the fact that I had a sudden cash flow problem and was still within the return window :) I haven't invested the time into setting up a proper home automation rig yet, but it is on my to-do list.

frogpelt 13y ago

This is already incredibly easy with Android in the fold. They know your WiFi passwords. Of course they know when you're home.

mcintyre1994 13y ago
Android tracks your location for Google Now too. Actually they handily name your home location "home", and let you set it if they get it wrong. I've heard Apple do something similar now as well, so we can probably assume the average person's location history is easily subpoenable through Google or Apple.

sliverstorm 13y ago

I'm not really worried about subpoena of my data- if the courts want it, they will get it. I'd be more concerned about what private companies are going to do with it. I know the gov't is the big bogeyman in most people's minds, but sometimes I swear private corps. have even less accountability than the gov't.

lightbritefight 13y ago
This all breaks down to one thing. The government can detain you indefinitely and is equipped to kill you. No private enterprise can do either of these things legally. The government holds deadly force. Private enterprise is going to do some horrifying things with your data, but barring a cyperpunk dystopia, it lacks the capability to end your life.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  What exactly are you wishing for here? That the government be prevented from accessing information on you under all circumstances? To my knowledge, a subpoena is usually pretty reasonable circumstances, and it was subpoenas specifically that we were discussing. If you feel otherwise, I would like to hear more.
  - VexXtreme 13y ago
    Subpoenas are irrelevant when they are siphoning all the data they can get their hands on through programs like PRISM enabled by Patriot act. And yes, while it doesn't matter what they can and cannot do with your data now (unless you're a criminal not much, obviously), if the government ever becomes excessively authoritarian and dictatorial, keep in mind they can retroactively go through all the data they ever gathered on you and find something to string you up with.
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  Wait until the day that Google announces that they're opening up their entire database of search histories in the name of transparency. It will be an opt-out initiative where those wishing to keep their data out of the open will have to pay a monthly "processing and maintenance fee" to "manually" remove your entries from the database.

wyager 13y ago

Exactly. I don't care if the government knows when I'm home (they can already figure that out), but imagine if Google's database of Nest info got leaked. Burglars could look at the database and say "Oh hey, look, no one's home right now."

DominikR 13y ago
I guess that the threat of being abducted by aliens is higher than burglars successfully hacking Google to get information on when you are not at home.
- wyager 13y ago
  Databases get leaked publicly all the time. Look at the recent instagram leak.
MartinCron 13y ago
This acquisition makes me a little bit nervous, but I have to point out that the database can be stolen or leaked no matter who is responsible for it.
vdaniuk 13y ago
Do you really think burglars could not get their hands on leaked government agency database? This is just another excuse to throw feces at Google, and HN commenters just don't miss any possible opportunity to do that.
- diydsp 13y ago
  strawman and goalposts. PP said google's database, not government databases. google data breach in last 30 days: http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/passwords-stolen/ http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/password... inside job at home security company in last year: http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html
  - 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

DannyBee 13y ago

Nest already recorded temperature changes so they could give you a handy chart. So it was already subpoenaable?

wojt_eu 13y ago

Google already knows your location. Readings from your home electronics only enrich this data and make it more reliable.