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> Sorry, but this is laughable. Keyboard shortcuts are far more useful and consistent across applications in OS X. I don't agree with this at all. I find it b

> Sorry, but this is laughable. Keyboard shortcuts are far more useful and consistent across applications in OS X. I don't agree with this at all. I find it baffling that a company of great designers made such bad decisions about keyboard shortcuts. Perhaps they are consistent, but they are consistently bad. Paste and match style (incredibly useful) is "alt-shift-command-v" i.e. four keys. There are plenty of other shortcuts that also require four keys. Four is too many. Three is too many for such an important function. This is absurd. Using shortcuts in IDEs is a nightmare on most apple keyboard. e.g. Intellij, to run your program: alt-shift-f10. This is daft in itself, but it actually translates to function-alt-shift-f10 on many keyboards. Yes, you can change your settings, but then you could remap all your keys in any O/S. Miss the function key and you've just muted your volume. I have no interest in slagging Apple off; I use their products almost exclusively, but this is obviously an area where they messed up. I'd love to see this fixed, although I understand why they probably won't.

comex 13y ago
> Using shortcuts in IDEs is a nightmare on most apple keyboard. e.g. Intellij, to run your program: alt-shift-f10. This is daft in itself, but it actually translates to function-alt-shift-f10 on many keyboards. Yes, you can change your settings, but then you could remap all your keys in any O/S. Miss the function key and you've just muted your volume. I really find that hard to see as anything but the IDE's fault, probably due to cross platform shortcuts not rethought for OS X - but even then, something like 40 base non-function keys times at least four combinations of modifiers, and something as important as running the program gets relegated to alt-shift-F10?
- randomsearch 13y ago
  > I really find that hard to see as anything but the IDE's fault, That's fine, but the IDE is an application running on the OS X platform. OS X has these problems just as much as any platform, but the situation is made worse by their use of the function keys and by poor choices for other shortcuts.
- electrum 13y ago
  System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Use all F1, ... as standard function keys
podperson 13y ago
"Paste and match formatting" shouldn't be necessary for most programs, and isn't a platform standard. Paste is command-V. A sensible application should do the most likely thing the user wants with paste and overload the shortcut for weird stuff. The fact that Microsoft consistently does the weird thing by default isn't a platform problem with the Mac, just with Word. Now you could point out Pages has the same shortcut and same stupid behavior. I agree, but that's what happens when there's a clear market leader. (Oddly enough, I've been implementing a web-based word processor, and we make paste-and-match (paragraph) style while retaining (character) styles the default. You can't actually do this in Word or Pages — default or not — despite the fact it's what users want 99% of the time. So if I paste some text with an italicized passage, the font changes to match the ambient styling, but the italics remain. When we implemented it, the UX people were flabbergasted -- they assumed it must be impossible because no word-processor does it.)
- randomsearch 13y ago
  > "Paste and match formatting" shouldn't be necessary for most programs, and isn't a platform standard. If I copy and paste from a web browser, sometimes I want the formatting and sometimes I don't. It's not an usual case. Places where I use this shortcut include Word, Evernote and Mail. It's just not a sensible key combination.
  - drewblay 13y ago
    >If I copy and paste from a web browser, sometimes I want the formatting The default SHOULD be to lose the formatting of the original and to use the font/style that is in Word. I would think that 99% of time anyone is copying and pasting into Word this is their intended result. I agree with the other post, it is incredibly stupid to have it keep formatting from the original by default.
    - bjelkeman-again 13y ago
      Yes. This is a feature where you wonder if whoever though of that shortcut ever used a word processor. Such a bad design choice for such a common action.
rsynnott 13y ago
IntelliJ actually provides two sets of MacOS keyboard shortcuts, for some reason. The non-default (MacOS 10.5+) is generally far better.
- 91bananas 13y ago
  And the IntelliJ family of products has one of the most configurable sets of keyboard shortcut sets I've ever seen. You can literally set any feature available to any keyboard shortcut you want to, if you want paste to be 5 keys go for it, so complaining about this is senseless.
redbad 13y ago
> Paste and match style (incredibly useful) is "alt-shift- > command-v" i.e. four keys . . . Four is too many. Three > is too many for such an important function. I've literally never heard of this functionality before, in any application, on any platform.
DontGiveTwoFlux 13y ago
I found this issue when using all kinds of programs, so here's a little trick using AppleScript. Put the following into a file in your home directory (I call mine .f12Keys) tell application "System Preferences" activate set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.keyboard" end tell tell application "System Events" tell application process "System Preferences" click checkbox 1 of tab group 1 of window "Keyboard" end tell tell application "System Preferences" to quit end tell Then, put the following line into your .bash_profile. alias f12="osascript .f12Keys" Now whenever you need to switch the default behavior of function keys, simply open a new terminal window and type "f12". It takes my computer about half a second to execute. That's kind of the brilliance of Apple products and Cocoa. If there's something you do frequently, if it's in a GUI or otherwise, so long as it's written in Cocoa you can automate it. Yeah, most Apple users have never heard of AppleScript, but for those who use it for the little things every day, it's quite helpful.
gcanyon 13y ago
If you don't like it, change it. Keyboard shortcuts can be (re)defined, on a per-app basis or universally, in the Shortcuts tab of the Keyboard preferences. I could never remember the various screen shot shortcuts, so for me it's command-escape for the clipboard and option-escape for straight to a file. It took me less than a minute to change Pages so command-v pastes matching style, and command-option-v pastes with the original style. Even better, Pages's menus display the new shortcuts. The latest Pages doesn't really seem to have paragraph styles vs. character styles, so it might be more difficult to pull that off, but Automator is very clever, and AppleScript moreso, so I'm betting it's possible.

comex 13y ago

> Using shortcuts in IDEs is a nightmare on most apple keyboard. e.g. Intellij, to run your program: alt-shift-f10. This is daft in itself, but it actually translates to function-alt-shift-f10 on many keyboards. Yes, you can change your settings, but then you could remap all your keys in any O/S. Miss the function key and you've just muted your volume. I really find that hard to see as anything but the IDE's fault, probably due to cross platform shortcuts not rethought for OS X - but even then, something like 40 base non-function keys times at least four combinations of modifiers, and something as important as running the program gets relegated to alt-shift-F10?

randomsearch 13y ago
> I really find that hard to see as anything but the IDE's fault, That's fine, but the IDE is an application running on the OS X platform. OS X has these problems just as much as any platform, but the situation is made worse by their use of the function keys and by poor choices for other shortcuts.
electrum 13y ago
System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Use all F1, ... as standard function keys

podperson 13y ago

"Paste and match formatting" shouldn't be necessary for most programs, and isn't a platform standard. Paste is command-V. A sensible application should do the most likely thing the user wants with paste and overload the shortcut for weird stuff. The fact that Microsoft consistently does the weird thing by default isn't a platform problem with the Mac, just with Word. Now you could point out Pages has the same shortcut and same stupid behavior. I agree, but that's what happens when there's a clear market leader. (Oddly enough, I've been implementing a web-based word processor, and we make paste-and-match (paragraph) style while retaining (character) styles the default. You can't actually do this in Word or Pages — default or not — despite the fact it's what users want 99% of the time. So if I paste some text with an italicized passage, the font changes to match the ambient styling, but the italics remain. When we implemented it, the UX people were flabbergasted -- they assumed it must be impossible because no word-processor does it.)

randomsearch 13y ago
> "Paste and match formatting" shouldn't be necessary for most programs, and isn't a platform standard. If I copy and paste from a web browser, sometimes I want the formatting and sometimes I don't. It's not an usual case. Places where I use this shortcut include Word, Evernote and Mail. It's just not a sensible key combination.
- drewblay 13y ago
  >If I copy and paste from a web browser, sometimes I want the formatting The default SHOULD be to lose the formatting of the original and to use the font/style that is in Word. I would think that 99% of time anyone is copying and pasting into Word this is their intended result. I agree with the other post, it is incredibly stupid to have it keep formatting from the original by default.
  - bjelkeman-again 13y ago
    Yes. This is a feature where you wonder if whoever though of that shortcut ever used a word processor. Such a bad design choice for such a common action.

rsynnott 13y ago

IntelliJ actually provides two sets of MacOS keyboard shortcuts, for some reason. The non-default (MacOS 10.5+) is generally far better.

91bananas 13y ago
And the IntelliJ family of products has one of the most configurable sets of keyboard shortcut sets I've ever seen. You can literally set any feature available to any keyboard shortcut you want to, if you want paste to be 5 keys go for it, so complaining about this is senseless.

redbad 13y ago

> Paste and match style (incredibly useful) is "alt-shift- > command-v" i.e. four keys . . . Four is too many. Three > is too many for such an important function. I've literally never heard of this functionality before, in any application, on any platform.

DontGiveTwoFlux 13y ago

I found this issue when using all kinds of programs, so here's a little trick using AppleScript. Put the following into a file in your home directory (I call mine .f12Keys) tell application "System Preferences" activate set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.keyboard" end tell tell application "System Events" tell application process "System Preferences" click checkbox 1 of tab group 1 of window "Keyboard" end tell tell application "System Preferences" to quit end tell Then, put the following line into your .bash_profile. alias f12="osascript .f12Keys" Now whenever you need to switch the default behavior of function keys, simply open a new terminal window and type "f12". It takes my computer about half a second to execute. That's kind of the brilliance of Apple products and Cocoa. If there's something you do frequently, if it's in a GUI or otherwise, so long as it's written in Cocoa you can automate it. Yeah, most Apple users have never heard of AppleScript, but for those who use it for the little things every day, it's quite helpful.

gcanyon 13y ago

If you don't like it, change it. Keyboard shortcuts can be (re)defined, on a per-app basis or universally, in the Shortcuts tab of the Keyboard preferences. I could never remember the various screen shot shortcuts, so for me it's command-escape for the clipboard and option-escape for straight to a file. It took me less than a minute to change Pages so command-v pastes matching style, and command-option-v pastes with the original style. Even better, Pages's menus display the new shortcuts. The latest Pages doesn't really seem to have paragraph styles vs. character styles, so it might be more difficult to pull that off, but Automator is very clever, and AppleScript moreso, so I'm betting it's possible.