5 ms·

If they are on strike the Uber driver is a scab. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo70qkxzelA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo70qkxzelA

theorique 13y ago
One presumes that the Uber driver isn't part of their union. Yes, he's in the same business, but radio cabs are a competing arm compared to licensed taxis.
- hapless 13y ago
  Not being a member of the union and working during a strike is the definition of scabbing.
  - theorique 13y ago
    Ah, ok. What about if someone's in a business providing substitute goods or services? e.g. cafeteria workers are on strike, so the org orders pizza instead - are the pizza makers and delivery people scabs? Or is that just a work-around?
    - kungfooguru 13y ago
      Yes, they are scabs and should decline to make and deliver pizzas.
      - theorique 13y ago
        What are the "rules" about this? I often see people arguing against scab labor with real fervor, but how is this defined? And who decides where to draw the line? e.g. continuing with the cafeteria example, if people decide to go off campus and purchase food at a different establishment, are those food workers then considered scabs? Or is it only scab labor if it's hired as a temp replacement by the company against whom the workers are on strike. And back to the original example, what happens a person needs to get to the airport, or to work? The challenge with substitute goods and services (e.g. Uber or gypsy cabs or other app-based car services, in place of licensed cabs) is that a monopoly gets marginalized and a strike is less effective. But what's a person supposed to do who needs to be transported from A to B? Not call Uber?
        kungfooguru 13y ago
        It is a simple definition, a scab is a person who accepts work that undermines the union. This can be refusing to join the union, accepting less pay or crossing the picket line and working. So a restaurant worker not refusing to feed a student off campus would not undermine the shutdown of the on campus cafeteria. But any attempt to recreate the cafeteria by the school, on or off campus, would. You should do the best you can to do nothing that could undermine the strike. A key is who do you complain about and complain to. If public transit workers are on strike, which makes your commute worse, do you blame the workers or complain to the management.
        theorique 13y ago
        If public transit workers are on strike, which makes your commute worse, do you blame the workers or complain to the management. In that case, I'd probably just call Uber. Or a cab. ;)
    - hapless 13y ago
      If your pizza delivery driver crossed a picket line, yes, he is scabbing.
  - henryaj 13y ago
    Not if your service is different - the Uber driver isn't a taxi driver, he's a private car driver. It's like saying people going to work at a gas plant are scabbing when coal miners are striking.
    - theorique 13y ago
      Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm getting at with my line of questioning. If a person works in an industry that creates a substitute for the products or services of a unionized industry, is he or she a scab worker? Obviously, when the company hires temp replacements, that's very direct. But if a new industry makes an old industry irrelevant, using that kind of critical language seems like an unfair attack on the workers in the new industry.
xxpor 13y ago
That means they should be subject to violence?
kazagistar 13y ago
Right, and so are bus drivers, because they also provide a similar service.
- john_b 13y ago
  And limo drivers, public transport employees in any capacity, friends who give other friends rides... When you are the beneficiary of what would otherwise be called a protection racket if it weren't state sponsored, it's easy to be angry when others don't pay the protection money and get away with it.
oh_sigh 13y ago
Yes, so they deserve to be assaulted!
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  "Deserve" doesn't really have anything to do with it. Violence and labor disputes have a long history together. You keep a man from feeding his family at your own peril. I'm sure the perpetrators would be perfectly willing to stand trial for assault and property damage, maybe they already have.
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    >I'm sure the perpetrators would be perfectly willing to stand trial for assault and property damage, maybe they already have. How honorable. It's hard to earn a living, it always has been. That doesn't give people the right to use violence to stop other people competing with them. The more violent person is not entitled to an easier life.
    - vinceguidry 13y ago
      Rights? Entitlement? How does that have anything to do with it? Your sense of justice cannot be translated to the real world. If someone's willing to face society's punishment, then there's nothing you can do to stop them.
yetanotherphd 13y ago
You violent extremists are true scum.

theorique 13y ago

One presumes that the Uber driver isn't part of their union. Yes, he's in the same business, but radio cabs are a competing arm compared to licensed taxis.

hapless 13y ago
Not being a member of the union and working during a strike is the definition of scabbing.
- theorique 13y ago
  Ah, ok. What about if someone's in a business providing substitute goods or services? e.g. cafeteria workers are on strike, so the org orders pizza instead - are the pizza makers and delivery people scabs? Or is that just a work-around?
  - kungfooguru 13y ago
    Yes, they are scabs and should decline to make and deliver pizzas.
    - theorique 13y ago
      What are the "rules" about this? I often see people arguing against scab labor with real fervor, but how is this defined? And who decides where to draw the line? e.g. continuing with the cafeteria example, if people decide to go off campus and purchase food at a different establishment, are those food workers then considered scabs? Or is it only scab labor if it's hired as a temp replacement by the company against whom the workers are on strike. And back to the original example, what happens a person needs to get to the airport, or to work? The challenge with substitute goods and services (e.g. Uber or gypsy cabs or other app-based car services, in place of licensed cabs) is that a monopoly gets marginalized and a strike is less effective. But what's a person supposed to do who needs to be transported from A to B? Not call Uber?
      - kungfooguru 13y ago
        It is a simple definition, a scab is a person who accepts work that undermines the union. This can be refusing to join the union, accepting less pay or crossing the picket line and working. So a restaurant worker not refusing to feed a student off campus would not undermine the shutdown of the on campus cafeteria. But any attempt to recreate the cafeteria by the school, on or off campus, would. You should do the best you can to do nothing that could undermine the strike. A key is who do you complain about and complain to. If public transit workers are on strike, which makes your commute worse, do you blame the workers or complain to the management.
        theorique 13y ago
        If public transit workers are on strike, which makes your commute worse, do you blame the workers or complain to the management. In that case, I'd probably just call Uber. Or a cab. ;)
  - hapless 13y ago
    If your pizza delivery driver crossed a picket line, yes, he is scabbing.
- henryaj 13y ago
  Not if your service is different - the Uber driver isn't a taxi driver, he's a private car driver. It's like saying people going to work at a gas plant are scabbing when coal miners are striking.
  - theorique 13y ago
    Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm getting at with my line of questioning. If a person works in an industry that creates a substitute for the products or services of a unionized industry, is he or she a scab worker? Obviously, when the company hires temp replacements, that's very direct. But if a new industry makes an old industry irrelevant, using that kind of critical language seems like an unfair attack on the workers in the new industry.

xxpor 13y ago

That means they should be subject to violence?

kazagistar 13y ago

Right, and so are bus drivers, because they also provide a similar service.

john_b 13y ago
And limo drivers, public transport employees in any capacity, friends who give other friends rides... When you are the beneficiary of what would otherwise be called a protection racket if it weren't state sponsored, it's easy to be angry when others don't pay the protection money and get away with it.

oh_sigh 13y ago

Yes, so they deserve to be assaulted!

vinceguidry 13y ago
"Deserve" doesn't really have anything to do with it. Violence and labor disputes have a long history together. You keep a man from feeding his family at your own peril. I'm sure the perpetrators would be perfectly willing to stand trial for assault and property damage, maybe they already have.
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  >I'm sure the perpetrators would be perfectly willing to stand trial for assault and property damage, maybe they already have. How honorable. It's hard to earn a living, it always has been. That doesn't give people the right to use violence to stop other people competing with them. The more violent person is not entitled to an easier life.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    Rights? Entitlement? How does that have anything to do with it? Your sense of justice cannot be translated to the real world. If someone's willing to face society's punishment, then there's nothing you can do to stop them.

yetanotherphd 13y ago

You violent extremists are true scum.