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Uber car attacked by Paris cab drivers on strike
- trekky1700 13y agoSaw the tweets this morning, a bit terrifying. Humanity always somehow surprises me in its capacity for meaningless violence.
- tokenizer 13y agoSadly, they probably see the uber drivers as scabs. Even though that's like if the Police went on strike, and started beating up employed security guards...
- tetrep 13y agoto be fair, it's not meaningless. it's very much done to instill fear into the Uber drivers, who they most likely see as scabs.
- loceng 13y agoFear of survival for yourself and your family? How's that meaningless? Perhaps misdirected, though clearly they're worried.
- trekky1700 13y agoThe fear isn't meaningless, but the violence is. There is no reality where smashing the windows on a cab is going to change their situation.
- smackfu 13y agoMakes other people less likely to drive for Uber, eh?
- ivanca 13y agoAnd for taxis themselves; people who destroy other companies cars are not my favorite drivers.
- trekky1700 13y agoI suppose, I guess almost all violence then becomes meaningful too. I guess unnecessary would be the better word. Though really I just don't want to live on this planet anymore.
- loceng 13y agoSo keep engaging with it and helping lead it to change through example. However if you get tired of that, I hear there are applications to live in Mars. I have ambitious long-term plans to help impact this in a practical way if you're interested in hearing. I'm living in Toronto currently too. It feels like I am quite far away from having the team together I will need to execute it all, though hoping it's only around the corner.
- roel_v 13y agoYou mean just like setting fire to schools for girls will make it less likely that girls get educations?
- lmm 13y agoWell, it will. That action is many things, but it's not meaningless.
- icebraining 13y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7049545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7049545
- eloff 13y agoHow meaninglessly proletarian and small minded. Like the smashing of weaving machines during the industrial revolution. The impossible fight against change and the inexorable march of technology. Also shame on France for imposing a minimum 15 minute delay for picking up a customer. France, where free market competition is second to politics and special interests. Look at the anti Amazon legislation.
- SDMattG 13y agoRight?? You would think taxi drivers wouldn't be blind to the possibility of disruption. Look at the music industry and many others. I can't wait for all remaining crap services to be forcefully improved.
- Pxtl 13y ago> Like the smashing of weaving machines during the industrial revolution I know, the buggy-whip manufacturers are doomed to be replaced by the... slightly-more-sophisticated app-supported buggy-whip-manufacturers. Seriously, Uber's success doesn't come from spectacular disruptive technology, they succeed by circumventing the absurd regulatory capture that exists in the taxi market in some cities.
- JulianMorrison 13y agoRegulatory capture which exists because, before it existed, taxi drivers used to riot and attack each other. With potential supply consisting of "everyone with a car", either prices would be driven down to bankruptcy, or with prices fixed by law, demand would be smeared too thin, or (as actually happened) means of limiting the supply would be created (violence and mob links outside the law, or regulation inside it).
- Sanddancer 13y agoThe problem is that with the medallion system, you're turning the ability to drive a cab into property. As such, it becomes a /lot/ harder to reasonably control supply, because adding medallions will garner protests from the existing holders, regardless of the needs of the city. Additionally, with the costs of these medallions, it becomes a lot harder for a middle class person to get started in the taxi business; you have to join one of the cartels and curry favor with them in order to have a chance to drive and get decent dispatches. I'd argue that the best way to handle the taxi drivers of all sorts is to move to a licensing system. Give priority to existing drivers, but at the same time, allow flexibility in setting the supply to give the little guy a chance to compete. Taxi systems in most city are corrupt from top to bottom, and these actions in France just show how the drivers are willing to go along with the broken system at hand.
- dandare 13y agoSocialism at it's best.
- legolandbridge 13y agoits* best. If you're gonna fight the stupidities of socialism, please represent well.
- louhike 13y agoWhat does it have to do with socialism? Stupid people do stupid things no matter what is their government.
- levosmetalo 13y agowhat does this has to do with socialism?
- fiorix 13y agoOh, they finally realized there are better alternatives for people and got angry...
- temuze 13y ago> France has already instituted a rule that requires a minimum 15-minute wait before a service like Uber can actually pick up a customer. Holy crap. And I thought the "Lang Law" was bad: http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/10/the-anti-amazon-law-is-about-to-become-a-reality-in-france-but-its-not-a-bad-thing/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/10/the-anti-amazon-law-is-abou... Apparently, France also fixes the price of all books to keep it 'fair' for small bookstores.
- rockdoe 13y agoIs this circumventable by shipping form another EU country? Amazon UK ships for free to most of Europe and is AFAIK not bound by these laws, so this is a really strange situation.
- morsch 13y agoAmazon.co.uk seems to charge >5 GBP for shipments to the rest of Europe: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=11072981 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId...
- truxs 13y agoBut http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/ http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/ (acquired by Amazon in 2011) offer free shipping worldwide
- louhike 13y agoIt is only interesting if you want to buy english books most of the time. The prices of books are not excessive in France despite this law.
- morsch 13y ago> Apparently, France also fixes the price of all books to keep it 'fair' for small bookstores. So does Germany. As well as many other countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
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- kungfooguru 13y agoIf they are on strike the Uber driver is a scab. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo70qkxzelA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo70qkxzelA
- theorique 13y agoOne presumes that the Uber driver isn't part of their union. Yes, he's in the same business, but radio cabs are a competing arm compared to licensed taxis.
- hapless 13y agoNot being a member of the union and working during a strike is the definition of scabbing.
- theorique 13y agoAh, ok. What about if someone's in a business providing substitute goods or services? e.g. cafeteria workers are on strike, so the org orders pizza instead - are the pizza makers and delivery people scabs? Or is that just a work-around?
- kungfooguru 13y agoYes, they are scabs and should decline to make and deliver pizzas.
- theorique 13y agoWhat are the "rules" about this? I often see people arguing against scab labor with real fervor, but how is this defined? And who decides where to draw the line? e.g. continuing with the cafeteria example, if people decide to go off campus and purchase food at a different establishment, are those food workers then considered scabs? Or is it only scab labor if it's hired as a temp replacement by the company against whom the workers are on strike. And back to the original example, what happens a person needs to get to the airport, or to work? The challenge with substitute goods and services (e.g. Uber or gypsy cabs or other app-based car services, in place of licensed cabs) is that a monopoly gets marginalized and a strike is less effective. But what's a person supposed to do who needs to be transported from A to B? Not call Uber?
- hapless 13y agoThis is one of the reasons that people don't cross picket lines. Good people won't cross them out of principle. The unprincipled among us may encounter other obstacles. It is very likely this driver got his just deserts.
- mikeash 13y ago> Good people won't cross them out of principle. Can you explain why? I fully respect workers' right to unionize and strike, but there's no reason I should be bound by their strike.
- sliverstorm 13y agoIt's an us-vs-them thing. The idea being you are on the same team as other workers, whether or not you are part of their strike.
- kungfooguru 13y agoDo you understand how strikes work? It is gasp a form of DISRUPTION. Solidarity with the strikes by not crossing the line improves their chances of success.
- xxpor 13y agoWhat happens when you don't agree with the strike?
- kungfooguru 13y agoThen you can take your chances trying to cross.
- mikeash 13y agoWhy should I care about improving their chances of success?
- 13y ago
- Argorak 13y agoProtests and aggression are close friends in France. For example, kidnapping the boss to prevent layoffs (or at least get better severances) is something that happens regularly.
- brohee 13y agoExcept it's not really kidnapping, it's more like theater... A real kidnapping (physically restraining anyone) would be handled by the RAID or GIGN. Don't get me wrong, French unions are mostly wrong on about everything, but violence against individuals is still a big no-no. Thankfully.
- vdaniuk 13y agoHow is it a no-no if the linked article provides a prime example of violence by taxi union members?
- brohee 13y agovandalism != violence against an individual AFAIK, no one was hurt. And the union status of the taxi drivers involved got little to do with the case, pretty sure all taxi drivers, unionized or not, feel the same about people that chose to do the same work as they do, without respecting the same rules as they are.
- vdaniuk 13y agoLearn your definitions, will you? Violence is "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation.
- yetanotherphd 13y agoCan you clarify? It looks pretty real to me http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/07/goodyear-workers-kidnap-bosses_n_4552936.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/07/goodyear-workers-ki... It looks like the police don't get involved for political reasons.
- caruber 13y agoWhile i condemn the violence, i have hard time justifying uber as a new revolution or advancement of technology. Medallion owners pay close to 1.0 M $ to get the Taxi license from the city (NY) and they are not doing that for charity. If a new middlemen like Uber try to take the market without paying single dime it is bound to cause issues who have played by rules and invested significant money to acquire the license. Uber simply tries to aggregate the demand side and demand concessions from the supply side to get the leads. Portraying Uber as egalitarian is wrong in so many levels.
- Fomite 13y agoIt's sad how often "Regulation and taxes are for other people" gets relabeled as "Disruption". See: Uber, AirBnB
- kazagistar 13y agoRight, but it is not always uber that is at fault; maybe paying a million dollars to drive a taxi is where the problem is?
- harshpotatoes 13y agoSo I understand that on of the main points of contention is that the paris cab drivers face steep regulation in the form of requiring an expensive license, while the Uber drivers require no such license, and that to counter this lack of regulation they require the Uber drivers to wait 15minutes before picking up their customer. But there are still a few things I don't understand: Why do the Paris cab drivers require such regulations? How come the Uber drivers aren't required to have such a license? And maybe I don't completely understand the advantages of Uber (because I've never used a cab before), but at first glance, it seems the main reason uber is succeeding so well, is that there is an app to quickly summon a driver. So why doesn't such an app exist to call these licensed drivers who are so angry?
- stereo 13y agoThe licenses are limited in number, and re-sold. They’re seen by taxi drivers as a kind of life insurance. Talk about abolishing them or issuing more and, you guessed it, they’ll strike.
- dmix 13y agoThis is why regulation is more often bad than good. It always starts out with great intentions and often works well in the beginning, then crumbles over time either do to it's own bureaucracy, it's selective enforcement, or it's crippling effect on technology or markets. In addition, it's always difficult to evolve the law with the times, or remove it entirely, than to create new ones. So we're left with an ever-growing legacy of non-productive policy.
- john_b 13y agoIn general market regulations start out with good intentions, but the protection they afford specific groups eventually tends to seen as a sacred right by those groups. Especially after the first generation--those who could still remember a time without that regulation--have passed on. The type of regulations that can work well are those that benefit a large number of diverse groups (i.e. financial regulations preventing banks from doing stupid things with their customers' money) whose interests are so poorly correlated that they cannot effectively organize for a monopoly on some special privelege.
- lewsid 13y agoI was in an Uber this morning headed to Charles de Gaulle airport and got to see this all first hand. Hundreds of taxi drivers stopping traffic and flipping off the police while stalling traffic for a bunch of unlucky motorists. My driver pulled the car over as we approached the airport. He asked me get into the front seat, and then told me we had to act like friends if we were forced to stop and end up getting harrassed. He then went to the trunk and pulled out a pair of his normal clothes and changed right there on the side of the road (Uber drivers are easily recognizable thanks to their fancy attire). Upon settling back into the driver seat, with a big smile and a thick French accent, he said, "I am Batman." I rated the trip 5 stars.
- thomashapytag 13y agohttp://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/01/13/taxi-protest-paris-turns-guerrilla-warfare-uber-car-attacked-freeway/ http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/01/13/taxi-protest-paris-tu...
- bertil 13y agoToday, the real heroes have been those drivers.
- bicknergseng 13y agoThat guy is definitely more clever than his paygrade.
- mattyohe 13y agoLuddites.
- linux_devil 13y agoI can't imagine the situation when driver-less cars will hit on the roads .
- brg1007 13y agoTry to read the first paragraph in this article[1] to understand better how technology improvements were handled in the past in France: [1]http://www.economist.com/node/21524883 http://www.economist.com/node/21524883
- theorique 13y agoIt demanded that for each new computer, Le Monde should pay for one print worker to type on the keyboard and another simultaneously to watch the screen. It got its way. This sounds like a joke made up by a Tea Partier about how unions cut efficiency. I can hardly believe it.
- jarnix 13y agoYes, I heard that the same thing happened to a driver from "Chauffeur Privé" at the Orly airport. Wind mirror broken, nothing serious, but it's crazy how the taxi drivers do not care about the situation and want to keep their monopoly. The French company "Taxis G7" is a powerful lobby and they still decide everything for every taxi driver in France. Instead of changing, ugprading, offering new (and better !) service to their passengers, they try to scare the new comers. And seriously, it would not be difficult to improve the service in French cabs : remove the bad smell, remove the racist jokes, shutdown the loud radio talking about the latest soccer game which not everyone listens to, learn to say hello/thank you/goodbye, etc.
- nolite 13y agoaccept credit card payments..