13 ms·

The Problem With The Big Bang Theory

39 points by Ashuu 13y ago

pmelendez 13y ago
> "We aren’t laughing with Leonard, Sheldon, Raj and Howard. We’re laughing at them" Well, here is my confession... I do like the show, and I guess it is a guilty pleasure. I like it because I feel identified by the characters (my wife even call me Sheldon when I am being pedantic about something). But the author is right, when I watch the show I laugh at them and by transitivity I laugh at myself, which I have learnt is the best way to keep a good humor.
- davidw 13y ago
  Sure, you laugh 'at' them, but they're still portrayed as good people who are worth hanging out with, as Penny finds out with time over the first few seasons.
lostcolony 13y ago
I quite like this writeup. I've seen a few episodes of The Big Bang Theory, and could never quite put my finger on why I didn't enjoy it, when I knew people who claimed it was the cleverest thing on TV and absolutely hilarious. Clearly, though, I need to check out Community.
- mattgreenrocks 13y ago
  'Cheap' is the best adjective that describes TBBT. The jokes, the characters, the situations, all of it feels cheap. And that is because it is less about the character of the four guys and more about this one specific aspect of them: being nerdy. And it gets old really fast. Community has more interesting characters. They're still neurotic (the old guy gets a bit tiring), but they're much easier to care about.
cstuder 13y ago
Note that this is about the tv series, not the physical theory.
- mnw21cam 13y ago
  Please could someone change the title. I was disappointed, and wouldn't have clicked through if it had been clear that the article was about a TV show.
  - marknutter 13y ago
    It would just get changed back. The powers that be at HN usually like to make sure the original title is preserved.
dgoujard 13y ago
Very interesting points of view. I share the analyse.
billyjobob 13y ago
I watched an episode of this show once. It wasn't very funny. I don't think it's part of some grand conspiracy to belittle nerds. It's just a crappy show that anyone with an ounce of sense won't waste more than 20 minutes of their life on.
- joshuapants 13y ago
  Exactly. It's a Chuck Lorre sitcom, look at his past work and realize that he keeps following the same creatively bankrupt patterns from series to series.
- SifJar 13y ago
  Just because you don't enjoy something, doesn't mean you should belittle those that do. I like to think I have plenty of sense, and I quite like the show. Just because you didn't enjoy that particular episode, doesn't mean you wouldn't find another hilarious.
tlarkworthy 13y ago
Big Bang Theory is a depiction of what idiots think intelligent people are like. Those characters do not exist in real life. IMHO UK's IT crowd is a much better and funnier depiction of geeks (albeit Moss is a bit exaggerated too).
- pmelendez 13y ago
  Well they are exaggerations which is the fundament of comedy. Moss is my favorite character of IT Crowd. And now that you mention the show, you would see that IT Crowd is the other side of the venue, they tend to laugh at non tech savvy people (i.e internet in a box, typing google inside google, etc)
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  I would say "Have you tried turning it off and on again" accurately represents 90% of IT service calls, :p.
- riquito 13y ago
  "Moss is just a bit exaggerated" :-) 0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
  - chippy 13y ago
    That joke is mainly not about Moss or the IT Nerds - but rather the world outside that the audience inhabits. The Moss joke is that he is the only person able to actually memorise that (useful emergency) number, which shows he is better than the outside, that the normal world is the object to laugh at.
    - Dewie 13y ago
      I thought it was more of a savant thing; the very weird and maladjusted person who has some extreme mental gift, like being able to memorize a whole phone book (or in this case, a nonsensically long emergency number).
- davidw 13y ago
jaxomlotus 13y ago
That entire (mostly valid) point could have been made in 1 paragraph.
- lostcolony 13y ago
  And it is. The paragraph at the end that follows the 'To bring this to a close I think I found my answers: ' is exactly that, a TL;DR.
- stoolpigeon 13y ago
  Then you wouldn't have been able to spend as much time reading text against that background.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- aestra 13y ago
  I skimmed, read a few sentences, and felt I got the entire point.
mcphage 13y ago
I've read theories like this before, and I gotta say, I don't agree with them. A big part of his argument hinges on "The humour in The Big Bang theory relies on the audience siding with and relating to Penny, the character coded as “normal” in comparison to the main four guys."... and maybe we're watching different shows, but the one I watch has more humor from the guys' standpoint (and often at Penny's expense). Yes, there is some humor from her standpoint, for people that identify more with her—but there should be, she's a member of the cast, and there are people who relate to her. But there's far more humor for people who relate to the geek characters (since there's more of them).
- falcolas 13y ago
  There's also significantly more deprecating humor aimed at the geeks, which for me offsets any humor I derive from relating to them. Plus, the geeks really come across to me as too overly stereotypical to be relatable.
  - lostcolony 13y ago
    And even that would be relatable if it was self-deprecating. The article is right, the audience is positioned as an outsider; "It's funny because he mentioned that thing which is nerdy" rather than any realization of the character that Penny might find that reference impossible to relate to. You're clearly intended to identify with Penny.
    - Dewie 13y ago
      I guess just making it sound nerdy/technical should be enough for most of the audience to think it's nerdy as hell and thereby funny, even if it is nonsense? Like "I'll make a GUI interface in Visual Basic to track their IP". :) I haven't watched the show myself.
      - falcolas 13y ago
        That might help. Instead, it's something like "... I would do this like Spock <pause for laughtrack>"
marknutter 13y ago
I think Apatow's Freaks and Geeks was the best representation of what it's like to be a nerd/geek/freak/outsider.
- blakesterz 13y ago
  Somewhere in the DVD commentary he calls out a scene as what killed the show because it was just so realistic no one liked it. Everyone was making fun of a kid and he fell and broke his arm or something. They said after that scene aired the ratings dropped off and never recovered. So yeah, best representation, but it would seem people don't like things to be "real" they'd rather watch something like Big Bang and it not being so realistic.
dsschnau 13y ago
It's TV, what did you expect?
JonnieCache 13y ago
I thought the problem with the big bang theory was it's inability to explain the low entropy starting condition? EDIT: btw if you want a comedy show that's rooted firmly in the geek world, dig up the TV version of the dilbert cartoons. superb.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  I was going to upvote you but it's "its" instead of "it's"
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - raverbashing 13y ago
      No what? "It's" can mean two things: It is or it has Does the phrase accept either of these? No However, it accepts the neutral possessive pronoun "its" which is the correct word. And NO, the genitive case of the definite neutral pronoun is not done with an aposthrophe
      - JonnieCache 13y ago
        >And NO, the genitive case of the definite neutral pronoun is not done with an aposthrophe Presumably, this is the technical term for the fact that, while it possesses something, "it" doesn't get an apostrophe like in "the user's comment" because it's a pronoun and not a real noun, and thus not worthy of the extra punctuation? Always found that confusing and arbitrary. I'm happy to take a slightly scattershot approach to apostrophes, as long as I'm not writing "10 apple's a pound". It's too far into the reeds of arbitrary grammatical prescriptivism for my liking, without conveying any useful extra meaning. I didn't spend millions of years developing this highly adaptive fuzzy parser for nothing.
        mkr-hn 13y ago
        Commas are what really throw the parser off.
nounaut 13y ago
This again? TBBT is a comedy show. People laugh because it's funny. The culture that has spawned around TBBT has made nerd/geek culture cool. People don't buy and wear "Bazinga!" shirts because they like Penny and finds Sheldon to be a some kind of freak. The general audience love these characters. And through building that love and care of these guys, Chuck Lorre if anything has made Science and geek culture more populare than ever. Look at how HUGE geek and science-related things has become in social media. Look at the following astronauts are getting. Youtube channels and facebook groups about science. Yes people find them quirky, just as the characters of FRIENDS were quirky. People still love them and even identify with specific things they do or issues they face. My guess is people who find TBBT insulting are people who project self loathing. Clue #1: Feeling ANGER towards a TV show.
- ancarda 13y ago
  Cannot agree more. TBBT is one of my favourite TV shows. In recent series, a lot more jokes are made about Penny: Sheldon: Stephen Hawking is... Penny: Yeah I know, the wheelchair dude who invented time.
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  I guess part of "geek culture" is having been the uncool guy in school, having been pointed at and laughed at, getting bullied, being an outsider, andsoforth. A comedy show where outsiders are being pointed and laughed at will often bring those experiences back, and really isn't helping.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    I wonder if there's an age breakdown for people who hate/like the show. I'm well past the age where early high school is something I flash back to, so I'm perfectly OK with the show. But if I were younger I could see myself hating it. I can say that the "Revenge Of The Nerds" movies did me no favors at that stage of my life.
- kgarten 13y ago
  hmm ... strange. I just speak from my personal experience. I work in computer science research and consider myself a nerd/geek. I got already several statements when meeting new people, like "Oh ... you consider yourself nerd, no that cannot be, you are not weird or awkward like these guys at TBBT. I mean you can talk to women and do sports ...". How TBBT portrays nerds seems to have an impact on how a larger part of society (at least in my vicinity) sees nerds and I believe it's the wrong picture they are advertising.
dlsym 13y ago
sigh not the shitty TVshow again.
poopsintub 13y ago
He doesn't produce it, but "Two Broke Girls" being picked up from a pilot, nevertheless going into its third season, pretty much solidifies the point about Lorrie thinking.
chippy 13y ago
IT Crowd - Non-nerd characters are the actual clowns. The Big Bang Theory - Nerds are the clown characters. In IT Crowd, the nerds are put into hilarious situations because of an insane normal world. In Big Bang Theory, the nerds are put into hilarious situations because they are insane.
- AndrewDucker 13y ago
  If you don't think that Moss and Roy are both also clowns then you haven't been paying much attention.
  - chippy 13y ago
    Of course they also are. This thought has to be seen in the context of the subject of the thread - The Big Bang Theory, and the actual article which also deals with the outsider (non-nerd), the audience and the nerds. In other words, Penny or the people at the university on the whole are not clowns, rather the nerds are the primary clown characters. Jennifer, her boyfriends, Mr. Renham or most other non-nerd characters in the IT Crowd are the primary clown characters. We (the general audience) sympathise with the nerds more in the IT Crowd in the same way that we sympathise more with the non-nerds.
- Dewie 13y ago
  I think IT Crowd is a show which is based on a crazy universe, a universe where everyone turns out to be mad if the show puts enough attention on them. I guess this is in contrast to shows where some of the characters are crazy, and then you have a few other characters that are more normal to contrast them.
SifJar 13y ago
As someone who considers themself (and many of their friends) a nerd, I have to say I thoroughly enjoy the show. I study physics, I love Sci fi, I read comic books etc. I don't feel genuinely insulted by the show. Yes jokes are made at nerds' expense. But if you can't laugh at yourself and your own "culture", there's something wrong. If you don't like the show, that's fine. Don't watch it. But don't try and turn me against it just because you don't like it.
j2kun 13y ago
I find black on brown extremely hard to read.
corobo 13y ago
The problem with it is that you're watching it as if it's a show for nerds when it's a show about nerds as seen by people who are not nerds. You're not the target market for this show. As a side note on your page layout - My screen is massive. Please don't be afraid to use the space available!
Tycho 13y ago
I can't quite put my finger on why I find this article annoying.
sharemywin 13y ago
A doubt most people idenity with to hot, farm girl in big city, little slutty, stuck working at cheese cake factory because acting isn't going so well stereotypes. Comedy is funny because they take quirks people see in themselves and others and magnify them. The jocks aren't cool and relatable in TBBT either.
Renaud 13y ago
I discovered TBBT through a friend who nicknamed me 'Sheldon' due to my tendency to be somewhat socially awkward, geeky, and sharing some of Sheldon's OCDs. I fell in love with the show, and I don't really agree with the conclusions of the article. I don't feel like the writers are making fun of me, and I certainly don't feel that Penny is the 'normal' and cool character in the show. She's an underachiever, has a borderline drinking problem and poor choice in boyfriends before she met Leonard. Yes, there is a self-deprecating component to all this. The characters are caricatures of various nerdy personalities, but I find them lovable, and I can relate to some of what happens to them. I can laugh at myself, at my fondness for Star Trek, at my awkwardness in public, at my OCDs, at my love for everything technical and my interest in sciences. Being able to laugh at yourself is a strength, not a weakness. What if others are watching the show and believe that it is to be taken at face value? Why should I care? These nerds are successful scientists who work on the Mars Rover program, fly into space and go on adventures to the North Pole while Penny -the supposedly normal and cool character- is waiting tables in a dead-end job, shows no real passion for anything apart from shoes and it going nowhere. Anyway, it's just a show. Some like it, some hate it. I personally don't think it fuels such a negative view of what nerds are. Maybe it's a caricature that some may take at face value but I'm not worried about that, the joke's on them really and they don't even know it.
RougeFemme 13y ago
Interesting perspective that I had never thought of. . .I totally get it. . .but I still enjoy the show, only now I may feel guilty about it. Maybe I was so nerdy/naive I never perceived that the audience could be laughing more at them than with them. And honestly, I've been wishing we could see less of Penny. I get why Leonard is supposed to pine after Penny, but I keep thinking "get over her and move on to someone better". . .And I'm speaking as a female nerd.
Fuxy 13y ago
I knew I hated that show for some reason I just could never put it into words like he did. To be honest i never even got into it it a lot of people wanted me to watch it but after a few episodes it was clear this is not something worth my time. I couldn't help it cringe when the main characters put themselves in a socially awkward position unlike regular geeks I values social interaction as much as technology so my social skills are quite high for a geek. Plus i didn't find any of the jokes in the show funny frankly i found them quite insulting to geek culture. There's no one you can identify with the guys are just too awkward and the girl seems more like an extra that happens to be sexy and the guys are drooling on her. I know this is supposed to be a exaggeration of the typical geek but it just doesn't work for me.
viraptor 13y ago
I'm not sure which side I'm on really. There are both good jokes there and some really mean episodes that are laughing about really nasty behaviour. But to see how depressing some of the scenes actually are, search for "big bang theory without laugh track" on youtube. Once you listen to it like to a real situation... it's just terrible.
Jare 13y ago
Every mass-media depiction of an activity or group will be simultaneously exaggerated and incomplete. In particular, TV comedies will emphasize anything that can make you laugh. They'll portray as idiots and make fun of: nerds, geeks, musicians, politicians, assistants, policemen, scientists, managers, presidents, models, spies, secretaries, firemen, astronauts, unemployed, lawyers, extraterrestrials, students, depressed, celebrities, immigrants, writers, and even the dead ones if need be.
skriticos2 13y ago
It's a damn TV show, not a documentary. If you don't put your brain into low power mode and stop pondering about stuff, you won't enjoy it. It's a sequence of light jokes and a very loose story-line. Another example that comes to mind: I like SciFi. If I'd analyse every movie for scientific credibility, I'd have a horrible time and would hate the genre. Just put your brain in error correction mode and switch on your creativity and you'll have a great time. And if you don't like it, watch documentaries.
Dewie 13y ago
I had the impression that the whole embracing of being a geek/nerd was self-deprecating. But it seems that some people are being so ironic these days that it's hard to see where the meta-irony ends and the genuine feelings start. It seems that people who aren't nerds respect (that is, dis-respects) nerds just as much, just that now they can do it with more general social approval, and the nerds can't really talk back if these are relatively small slights because of all the seeming self-deprecation from nerds themselves; you don't want to be seen as humour-less and overly sensitive. Journalists can refer to working adults as nerds because, you know, self-irony and all that. Never mind the subtle put-downs; don't be sensitive. I think that people who have nerdy interests while also being a well-rounded person (a trait nerds aren't known for) are the biggest winners in this case. They already have social status, and then get even more respect for having interests that are associated with intelligence. Plus, since they already "have a life" in the mainstream sense, you know that they are being nerdy out of genuine interest and not because they were socially awkward and had to "find comfort" or whatever in some nerdy pursuit. I don't really consider myself a nerd, nor really a "normal" person. I think I have a lot of the negative traits of a nerd, while lacking some crucial traits/skill of a "normal" person. I don't really fit in anywhere in this dichotomy.
holograham 13y ago
Disagree with this authors sentiment. I too am a nerd and relate to the caricatures of nerds on the show. I collect comic books, was obsessive about magic cards, star wars vs star trek, dressed in nerd costumes rather than sexy costumes, and have a mild case of OCD. I like those things but I still see the humor in pointing out their absurdity on some levels. Many shows do this -- even the mainstream comedies. They make fun of binge drinking, hookup culture, being stupid, etc. Penny is made fun of constantly for her poor life choices, lack of degree, poor job, loser bfs, etc. AND the audience laughs at her constantly for it. Quite frankly I am proud that I relate with Sheldon more than Penny.
mickdarling 13y ago
I saw a reference recently that summed up why I dislike The Big Gang Theory: "Nerd Black Face." It is treating the nerds and geeks on the show as unself-aware fools for "real" society to laugh at.
- theorique 13y ago
  Agreed. It is literally a minstrel show where comical, exaggerated "nerds" parade their comical, exaggerated neuroses and yet it is somehow one of the most popular shows in the nation. No other social group or category would stand for this - it's basically blatant racism, but because it's not applied to a specific racial group but instead a social category, it's "funny" rather than "bigoted" or "mocking". Can you imagine the outcry if there were such a show about blacks or Chinese people? The NAACP or Chinese community groups would sue the network so fast that their heads would spin!

39 points by Ashuu 13y ago

> "We aren’t laughing with Leonard, Sheldon, Raj and Howard. We’re laughing at them" Well, here is my confession... I do like the show, and I guess it is a guilty pleasure. I like it because I feel identified by the characters (my wife even call me Sheldon when I am being pedantic about something). But the author is right, when I watch the show I laugh at them and by transitivity I laugh at myself, which I have learnt is the best way to keep a good humor.

davidw 13y ago
Sure, you laugh 'at' them, but they're still portrayed as good people who are worth hanging out with, as Penny finds out with time over the first few seasons.

lostcolony 13y ago

I quite like this writeup. I've seen a few episodes of The Big Bang Theory, and could never quite put my finger on why I didn't enjoy it, when I knew people who claimed it was the cleverest thing on TV and absolutely hilarious. Clearly, though, I need to check out Community.

mattgreenrocks 13y ago
'Cheap' is the best adjective that describes TBBT. The jokes, the characters, the situations, all of it feels cheap. And that is because it is less about the character of the four guys and more about this one specific aspect of them: being nerdy. And it gets old really fast. Community has more interesting characters. They're still neurotic (the old guy gets a bit tiring), but they're much easier to care about.

cstuder 13y ago

Note that this is about the tv series, not the physical theory.

mnw21cam 13y ago
Please could someone change the title. I was disappointed, and wouldn't have clicked through if it had been clear that the article was about a TV show.
- marknutter 13y ago
  It would just get changed back. The powers that be at HN usually like to make sure the original title is preserved.

dgoujard 13y ago

Very interesting points of view. I share the analyse.

billyjobob 13y ago

I watched an episode of this show once. It wasn't very funny. I don't think it's part of some grand conspiracy to belittle nerds. It's just a crappy show that anyone with an ounce of sense won't waste more than 20 minutes of their life on.

joshuapants 13y ago
Exactly. It's a Chuck Lorre sitcom, look at his past work and realize that he keeps following the same creatively bankrupt patterns from series to series.
SifJar 13y ago
Just because you don't enjoy something, doesn't mean you should belittle those that do. I like to think I have plenty of sense, and I quite like the show. Just because you didn't enjoy that particular episode, doesn't mean you wouldn't find another hilarious.

tlarkworthy 13y ago

Big Bang Theory is a depiction of what idiots think intelligent people are like. Those characters do not exist in real life. IMHO UK's IT crowd is a much better and funnier depiction of geeks (albeit Moss is a bit exaggerated too).

pmelendez 13y ago
Well they are exaggerations which is the fundament of comedy. Moss is my favorite character of IT Crowd. And now that you mention the show, you would see that IT Crowd is the other side of the venue, they tend to laugh at non tech savvy people (i.e internet in a box, typing google inside google, etc)
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
I would say "Have you tried turning it off and on again" accurately represents 90% of IT service calls, :p.
riquito 13y ago
"Moss is just a bit exaggerated" :-) 0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
- chippy 13y ago
  That joke is mainly not about Moss or the IT Nerds - but rather the world outside that the audience inhabits. The Moss joke is that he is the only person able to actually memorise that (useful emergency) number, which shows he is better than the outside, that the normal world is the object to laugh at.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    I thought it was more of a savant thing; the very weird and maladjusted person who has some extreme mental gift, like being able to memorize a whole phone book (or in this case, a nonsensically long emergency number).
davidw 13y ago

jaxomlotus 13y ago

That entire (mostly valid) point could have been made in 1 paragraph.

lostcolony 13y ago
And it is. The paragraph at the end that follows the 'To bring this to a close I think I found my answers: ' is exactly that, a TL;DR.
stoolpigeon 13y ago
Then you wouldn't have been able to spend as much time reading text against that background.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
aestra 13y ago
I skimmed, read a few sentences, and felt I got the entire point.

mcphage 13y ago

I've read theories like this before, and I gotta say, I don't agree with them. A big part of his argument hinges on "The humour in The Big Bang theory relies on the audience siding with and relating to Penny, the character coded as “normal” in comparison to the main four guys."... and maybe we're watching different shows, but the one I watch has more humor from the guys' standpoint (and often at Penny's expense). Yes, there is some humor from her standpoint, for people that identify more with her—but there should be, she's a member of the cast, and there are people who relate to her. But there's far more humor for people who relate to the geek characters (since there's more of them).

falcolas 13y ago
There's also significantly more deprecating humor aimed at the geeks, which for me offsets any humor I derive from relating to them. Plus, the geeks really come across to me as too overly stereotypical to be relatable.
- lostcolony 13y ago
  And even that would be relatable if it was self-deprecating. The article is right, the audience is positioned as an outsider; "It's funny because he mentioned that thing which is nerdy" rather than any realization of the character that Penny might find that reference impossible to relate to. You're clearly intended to identify with Penny.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    I guess just making it sound nerdy/technical should be enough for most of the audience to think it's nerdy as hell and thereby funny, even if it is nonsense? Like "I'll make a GUI interface in Visual Basic to track their IP". :) I haven't watched the show myself.
    - falcolas 13y ago
      That might help. Instead, it's something like "... I would do this like Spock <pause for laughtrack>"

marknutter 13y ago

I think Apatow's Freaks and Geeks was the best representation of what it's like to be a nerd/geek/freak/outsider.

blakesterz 13y ago
Somewhere in the DVD commentary he calls out a scene as what killed the show because it was just so realistic no one liked it. Everyone was making fun of a kid and he fell and broke his arm or something. They said after that scene aired the ratings dropped off and never recovered. So yeah, best representation, but it would seem people don't like things to be "real" they'd rather watch something like Big Bang and it not being so realistic.

dsschnau 13y ago

It's TV, what did you expect?

JonnieCache 13y ago

I thought the problem with the big bang theory was it's inability to explain the low entropy starting condition? EDIT: btw if you want a comedy show that's rooted firmly in the geek world, dig up the TV version of the dilbert cartoons. superb.

raverbashing 13y ago
I was going to upvote you but it's "its" instead of "it's"
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    No what? "It's" can mean two things: It is or it has Does the phrase accept either of these? No However, it accepts the neutral possessive pronoun "its" which is the correct word. And NO, the genitive case of the definite neutral pronoun is not done with an aposthrophe
    - JonnieCache 13y ago
      >And NO, the genitive case of the definite neutral pronoun is not done with an aposthrophe Presumably, this is the technical term for the fact that, while it possesses something, "it" doesn't get an apostrophe like in "the user's comment" because it's a pronoun and not a real noun, and thus not worthy of the extra punctuation? Always found that confusing and arbitrary. I'm happy to take a slightly scattershot approach to apostrophes, as long as I'm not writing "10 apple's a pound". It's too far into the reeds of arbitrary grammatical prescriptivism for my liking, without conveying any useful extra meaning. I didn't spend millions of years developing this highly adaptive fuzzy parser for nothing.
      - mkr-hn 13y ago
        Commas are what really throw the parser off.

nounaut 13y ago

This again? TBBT is a comedy show. People laugh because it's funny. The culture that has spawned around TBBT has made nerd/geek culture cool. People don't buy and wear "Bazinga!" shirts because they like Penny and finds Sheldon to be a some kind of freak. The general audience love these characters. And through building that love and care of these guys, Chuck Lorre if anything has made Science and geek culture more populare than ever. Look at how HUGE geek and science-related things has become in social media. Look at the following astronauts are getting. Youtube channels and facebook groups about science. Yes people find them quirky, just as the characters of FRIENDS were quirky. People still love them and even identify with specific things they do or issues they face. My guess is people who find TBBT insulting are people who project self loathing. Clue #1: Feeling ANGER towards a TV show.

ancarda 13y ago
Cannot agree more. TBBT is one of my favourite TV shows. In recent series, a lot more jokes are made about Penny: Sheldon: Stephen Hawking is... Penny: Yeah I know, the wheelchair dude who invented time.
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
I guess part of "geek culture" is having been the uncool guy in school, having been pointed at and laughed at, getting bullied, being an outsider, andsoforth. A comedy show where outsiders are being pointed and laughed at will often bring those experiences back, and really isn't helping.
- danielweber 13y ago
  I wonder if there's an age breakdown for people who hate/like the show. I'm well past the age where early high school is something I flash back to, so I'm perfectly OK with the show. But if I were younger I could see myself hating it. I can say that the "Revenge Of The Nerds" movies did me no favors at that stage of my life.
kgarten 13y ago
hmm ... strange. I just speak from my personal experience. I work in computer science research and consider myself a nerd/geek. I got already several statements when meeting new people, like "Oh ... you consider yourself nerd, no that cannot be, you are not weird or awkward like these guys at TBBT. I mean you can talk to women and do sports ...". How TBBT portrays nerds seems to have an impact on how a larger part of society (at least in my vicinity) sees nerds and I believe it's the wrong picture they are advertising.

dlsym 13y ago

sigh not the shitty TVshow again.

poopsintub 13y ago

He doesn't produce it, but "Two Broke Girls" being picked up from a pilot, nevertheless going into its third season, pretty much solidifies the point about Lorrie thinking.

chippy 13y ago

IT Crowd - Non-nerd characters are the actual clowns. The Big Bang Theory - Nerds are the clown characters. In IT Crowd, the nerds are put into hilarious situations because of an insane normal world. In Big Bang Theory, the nerds are put into hilarious situations because they are insane.

AndrewDucker 13y ago
If you don't think that Moss and Roy are both also clowns then you haven't been paying much attention.
- chippy 13y ago
  Of course they also are. This thought has to be seen in the context of the subject of the thread - The Big Bang Theory, and the actual article which also deals with the outsider (non-nerd), the audience and the nerds. In other words, Penny or the people at the university on the whole are not clowns, rather the nerds are the primary clown characters. Jennifer, her boyfriends, Mr. Renham or most other non-nerd characters in the IT Crowd are the primary clown characters. We (the general audience) sympathise with the nerds more in the IT Crowd in the same way that we sympathise more with the non-nerds.
Dewie 13y ago
I think IT Crowd is a show which is based on a crazy universe, a universe where everyone turns out to be mad if the show puts enough attention on them. I guess this is in contrast to shows where some of the characters are crazy, and then you have a few other characters that are more normal to contrast them.

SifJar 13y ago

As someone who considers themself (and many of their friends) a nerd, I have to say I thoroughly enjoy the show. I study physics, I love Sci fi, I read comic books etc. I don't feel genuinely insulted by the show. Yes jokes are made at nerds' expense. But if you can't laugh at yourself and your own "culture", there's something wrong. If you don't like the show, that's fine. Don't watch it. But don't try and turn me against it just because you don't like it.

j2kun 13y ago

I find black on brown extremely hard to read.

corobo 13y ago

The problem with it is that you're watching it as if it's a show for nerds when it's a show about nerds as seen by people who are not nerds. You're not the target market for this show. As a side note on your page layout - My screen is massive. Please don't be afraid to use the space available!

Tycho 13y ago

I can't quite put my finger on why I find this article annoying.

sharemywin 13y ago

A doubt most people idenity with to hot, farm girl in big city, little slutty, stuck working at cheese cake factory because acting isn't going so well stereotypes. Comedy is funny because they take quirks people see in themselves and others and magnify them. The jocks aren't cool and relatable in TBBT either.

Renaud 13y ago

I discovered TBBT through a friend who nicknamed me 'Sheldon' due to my tendency to be somewhat socially awkward, geeky, and sharing some of Sheldon's OCDs. I fell in love with the show, and I don't really agree with the conclusions of the article. I don't feel like the writers are making fun of me, and I certainly don't feel that Penny is the 'normal' and cool character in the show. She's an underachiever, has a borderline drinking problem and poor choice in boyfriends before she met Leonard. Yes, there is a self-deprecating component to all this. The characters are caricatures of various nerdy personalities, but I find them lovable, and I can relate to some of what happens to them. I can laugh at myself, at my fondness for Star Trek, at my awkwardness in public, at my OCDs, at my love for everything technical and my interest in sciences. Being able to laugh at yourself is a strength, not a weakness. What if others are watching the show and believe that it is to be taken at face value? Why should I care? These nerds are successful scientists who work on the Mars Rover program, fly into space and go on adventures to the North Pole while Penny -the supposedly normal and cool character- is waiting tables in a dead-end job, shows no real passion for anything apart from shoes and it going nowhere. Anyway, it's just a show. Some like it, some hate it. I personally don't think it fuels such a negative view of what nerds are. Maybe it's a caricature that some may take at face value but I'm not worried about that, the joke's on them really and they don't even know it.

RougeFemme 13y ago

Interesting perspective that I had never thought of. . .I totally get it. . .but I still enjoy the show, only now I may feel guilty about it. Maybe I was so nerdy/naive I never perceived that the audience could be laughing more at them than with them. And honestly, I've been wishing we could see less of Penny. I get why Leonard is supposed to pine after Penny, but I keep thinking "get over her and move on to someone better". . .And I'm speaking as a female nerd.

Fuxy 13y ago

I knew I hated that show for some reason I just could never put it into words like he did. To be honest i never even got into it it a lot of people wanted me to watch it but after a few episodes it was clear this is not something worth my time. I couldn't help it cringe when the main characters put themselves in a socially awkward position unlike regular geeks I values social interaction as much as technology so my social skills are quite high for a geek. Plus i didn't find any of the jokes in the show funny frankly i found them quite insulting to geek culture. There's no one you can identify with the guys are just too awkward and the girl seems more like an extra that happens to be sexy and the guys are drooling on her. I know this is supposed to be a exaggeration of the typical geek but it just doesn't work for me.

viraptor 13y ago

I'm not sure which side I'm on really. There are both good jokes there and some really mean episodes that are laughing about really nasty behaviour. But to see how depressing some of the scenes actually are, search for "big bang theory without laugh track" on youtube. Once you listen to it like to a real situation... it's just terrible.

Jare 13y ago

Every mass-media depiction of an activity or group will be simultaneously exaggerated and incomplete. In particular, TV comedies will emphasize anything that can make you laugh. They'll portray as idiots and make fun of: nerds, geeks, musicians, politicians, assistants, policemen, scientists, managers, presidents, models, spies, secretaries, firemen, astronauts, unemployed, lawyers, extraterrestrials, students, depressed, celebrities, immigrants, writers, and even the dead ones if need be.

skriticos2 13y ago

It's a damn TV show, not a documentary. If you don't put your brain into low power mode and stop pondering about stuff, you won't enjoy it. It's a sequence of light jokes and a very loose story-line. Another example that comes to mind: I like SciFi. If I'd analyse every movie for scientific credibility, I'd have a horrible time and would hate the genre. Just put your brain in error correction mode and switch on your creativity and you'll have a great time. And if you don't like it, watch documentaries.

Dewie 13y ago

I had the impression that the whole embracing of being a geek/nerd was self-deprecating. But it seems that some people are being so ironic these days that it's hard to see where the meta-irony ends and the genuine feelings start. It seems that people who aren't nerds respect (that is, dis-respects) nerds just as much, just that now they can do it with more general social approval, and the nerds can't really talk back if these are relatively small slights because of all the seeming self-deprecation from nerds themselves; you don't want to be seen as humour-less and overly sensitive. Journalists can refer to working adults as nerds because, you know, self-irony and all that. Never mind the subtle put-downs; don't be sensitive. I think that people who have nerdy interests while also being a well-rounded person (a trait nerds aren't known for) are the biggest winners in this case. They already have social status, and then get even more respect for having interests that are associated with intelligence. Plus, since they already "have a life" in the mainstream sense, you know that they are being nerdy out of genuine interest and not because they were socially awkward and had to "find comfort" or whatever in some nerdy pursuit. I don't really consider myself a nerd, nor really a "normal" person. I think I have a lot of the negative traits of a nerd, while lacking some crucial traits/skill of a "normal" person. I don't really fit in anywhere in this dichotomy.

holograham 13y ago

Disagree with this authors sentiment. I too am a nerd and relate to the caricatures of nerds on the show. I collect comic books, was obsessive about magic cards, star wars vs star trek, dressed in nerd costumes rather than sexy costumes, and have a mild case of OCD. I like those things but I still see the humor in pointing out their absurdity on some levels. Many shows do this -- even the mainstream comedies. They make fun of binge drinking, hookup culture, being stupid, etc. Penny is made fun of constantly for her poor life choices, lack of degree, poor job, loser bfs, etc. AND the audience laughs at her constantly for it. Quite frankly I am proud that I relate with Sheldon more than Penny.

mickdarling 13y ago

I saw a reference recently that summed up why I dislike The Big Gang Theory: "Nerd Black Face." It is treating the nerds and geeks on the show as unself-aware fools for "real" society to laugh at.

theorique 13y ago
Agreed. It is literally a minstrel show where comical, exaggerated "nerds" parade their comical, exaggerated neuroses and yet it is somehow one of the most popular shows in the nation. No other social group or category would stand for this - it's basically blatant racism, but because it's not applied to a specific racial group but instead a social category, it's "funny" rather than "bigoted" or "mocking". Can you imagine the outcry if there were such a show about blacks or Chinese people? The NAACP or Chinese community groups would sue the network so fast that their heads would spin!