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Chinese troops to seize Zhongye Island back from the Philippines in 2014
- TeMPOraL 13y ago> It will be an intolerable insult to China Like little kids...
- ithkuil 13y agoYes, I fully agree with that comment. But, I can easily imagine press in other countries (including in the US) using this kind of arguments in similar circumstances.
- TeMPOraL 13y agoI can imagine it too, and I would say the same thing whether this was a statement from US or from my own country. This kind of language suggest to me the framework of thinking of small kids or proud idiots, not of even remotely rational people. This saddens me.
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- Udo 13y agoHoly crap. On the other hand, China can do pretty much whatever it wants. Even if China was actively crazy all the time, it's doubtful anyone would be willing or able to stop them. Which, incidentally, might be a theory they are testing on the world right now. For everyone involved, I sincerely hope the Philippines does the right thing and avoids a hopeless military standoff, any outcome of which will only strengthen China further in a myriad ways.
- ridruejo 13y ago"Peace in our time" they used to say
- topynate 13y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitu_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitu_Island It's an inhabited island with a military base and an airstrip; I don't see the Philippines just walking away. Moreover, both Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims on the island, not to mention that the US has no desire to see any part of the Spratlys leave its sphere of influence. China might like to confine the repercussions of a military capture of the island, but that relies on intimidating all the countries I just mentioned, which I do not believe it can do.
- SuperChihuahua 13y agoThe airstrip is larger than the island: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Thitu+Island&hl=sv&geocode=FQGpqAAdOdrPBg&hnear=Thitu+Island&t=h&z=16 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Thitu+Island&hl=sv&geocode=FQ...
- arethuza 13y agoIntentionally acting crazy has actually been used as a strategy in international relations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory
- VuongN 13y agoDidn't work so well with Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam War. When there's nothing left to loose but pride, I'm quite sure that the "mad" metric is a little off.
- EliRivers 13y agoOn the other hand, China can do pretty much whatever it wants. Within a remarkably short distance of China. It does not have the equipment or expertise to globally project serious power for extended periods.
- imrehg 13y agoWell, living in Taiwan, I feel that "remarkably short distance" is too large for me already.
- EliRivers 13y agoOn the plus-side, China's current lack of a serious anti-submarine capability means any seaborne invasion of Taiwan can essentially only happen with the permission of the US. It's not so far from China to Taiwan on the map, but it's a hell of a long way in a warship :)
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoI doubt the US has the nerve to risk all out war for Taiwan. Tens or hundreds of thousands of American dead for what?
- EliRivers 13y agoI could say the same thing about the most recent Iraq war and subsequent occupation; that still happened.
- DominikR 13y agoIraq never had any capabilities to attack the US, you can't compare that to nuclear armed China.
- Pxtl 13y agoI think the US economic ties to China would be a stronger disincentive for the Powers That Be to anger China, moreso than any number of dead soldiers.
- yxhuvud 13y agoChina is powerful, but is it powerful enough to beat India, Japan and the phillipines at once? Especially considering that USA have a defence agreement with Japan.
- ctdonath 13y agoThe concern is that aggressive/imperial-minded political leaders may conclude the USA's current leader is disinterested in fulfilling defense agreements with several nations. ETA: With US presidential terms limited as they are, there is a fast-dwindling window of opportunity for others to take advantage of this timidity. Such an action would take about a year, and would preferably be completed well before a more militaristic President is elected.
- ihsw 13y agoAnd they wouldn't be wrong -- the US is quite timid towards China, despite all of the saber rattling in American politics. Methinks China would prefer this timidity to be obvious to everybody rather than quietly hidden among diplomatic undertones -- very devious indeed, and quite dangerous because there are quite a few on both sides that would like to see an escalation of tension.
- repsilat 13y agoJapan has a hell of a military (ahem, "self-defense force), but the others... India has some serious logistical problems, especially on its Chinese border, and it's having a hard time fixing it. The Chinese have been pushing into Arunchal Pradesh with impunity because they have the supporting infrastructure on their side of the border that India doesn't. (India also has nukes, but we're a long way from that mattering.) The Philippines sadly has little military capability to speak of. Other countries are effectively donating hardware to them (ships, mostly), but at the moment their best defense lies in their political ties, and the best help they can offer is to serve as a staging point for other nations' forces. Korea is a funny one, though. They're friendly to the Filipinos (and Americans), but the people there share a lot of the anti-Japanese sentiment seen in China. I think the scope of any role they play will be pretty path dependant, mostly hinging on where things flare up first.
- VuongN 13y ago>On the other hand, China can do pretty much whatever it wants I'm a Vietnamese with Nghe An root, so pardon me if I'm a little surprised at this statement. Has the world learn nothing from history? This is not my question, this is a question that was asked countless times by politicians and scholars during the Vietnam/American War. China had tried to invade/colonize Vietnam for over 1000 years, and each time, they went home in shame. Mongolians, Manchurians were able to take over the entire China, yet weren't able to completely dominate or wipe the Vietnamese people out. Vietnam is a VERY small country comparing to China and I think wars aren't always decided by military strength. Unfortunately, like many other smaller countries, Vietnam doesn't have a China problem, it currently has a Vietnam problem. China keeps pushing and the smaller countries are going to realize that they can't fight a bully by themselves. For Vietnam, China keeps pushing, it will expose the Sino-friendly elements of the Vietnamese government and will escalate a change in government power. So perhaps "China can do pretty much whatever it wants"... for a short time. Because if the water is under so much pressure, it will break the dam.
- dpina 13y agoIs this for real or just a propaganda bluff? What's next, capture the Japanese Islands in the south that China is disputing? Really hope this is just sensationalist news, as there are always plenty of them around. But there's also been a stream of weird updates on this region for the last years, and it's not just about rogue state North Korea.
- willvarfar 13y agoI don't find the bit where they say they will do it. The militrary make plans all the time, so they are ready if the politicians demand action. This doesn't mean they execute them.
- arethuza 13y agoExactly, some good examples: Churchill's plans to attack the Soviet Union (again): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable US plans for war with British Empire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red Edit: In case anyone was wondering what the "(again)" was about, it is a reference to the intervention in the Russian Civil war against the Soviets by Britain, the United States and a number of other powers - Churchill was a proponent of this action. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russ...
- liulu 13y agoDidn't find anything quite like this article in the more "mainstream" Chinese news sites, so I checked out the source qianzhan.com. Well it's definitely not something I would call a reliable news source
- jalayir 13y agoSounds eminently blusterous.
- sandGorgon 13y agoInteresting - over the past couple of months, Chinese troops have occupied land in the Ladakh region of India. This is infact one of the largest political issues in the scheduled Indian general elections in April. Looks like its happening all over Asia. [1] http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-india-needs-to-be-more-wary-of-china-after-the-ladakh-incursion-1005467.html http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-india-needs-to-be-more-wa... [2] http://www.livemint.com/Politics/fHAd0H2KBmVMcJW0HvC75H/India-raises-troop-incursion-issue-with-China.html http://www.livemint.com/Politics/fHAd0H2KBmVMcJW0HvC75H/Indi...
- allochthon 13y agoI think the Chinese military is somewhat autonomous and pursues a different agenda than the civilian government. It's a source of concern.
- etrevino 13y agoThe military answers directly to the Communist Party, making it autonomous from the civil government but not from the state's rulers.
- raldi 13y agoMap: http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/map-of-the-island.jpg http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.files.wordpress.com/...
- raldi 13y agoAt some point prior to WWI, the Chinese built a small temple on the island. It's doubtful they ever inhabited it. Then, in the 1940s, a private fishing magnate claimed the island and declared it (and some other nearby islands) an independent micronation. Nearby Vietnam, China, and Taiwan all objected but were too busy to do anything about it. He later found himself arrested by the Philipines and "sold" it to them for one peso. They built an landfill airstrip there later. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomás_Cloma#Free_Territory_of_Freedomland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomás_Cloma#Free_Territory_of_F...
- monkeyninja 13y agoyes, they just built a small temple.....but it doesn't mean anything since .... anyway.... You didn't mention ROC regain the control over the island 1946..
- somedudeyouknow 13y agoAt some point prior to WWI, the Chinese built a small temple on the island. The temple/s you mentioned was built on the Paracel Group of islands, which is an entirely different group of islands from the one China intends to invade. Pag-asa island is part of the Spratly group of islands, which is much further south than the Paracel group of islands. The Philippines has never claimed the Paracel group. It is much nearer to Vietnam, although China is claiming the Paracels as well. Below is a map indicating both groups of islands, as well as the surrounding countries and their exclusive economic zones (EEZs). http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/map-of-the-island.jpg http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.files.wordpress.com/... EDIT: for italics
- yaix 13y agoThey are called the Pagasa Island by everybody but the Chinese propaganda ministry. Anyway, I think this is all more Chinese interior policy, to divert public attention in China from the many problems the CCP currently has to maintain itself in power. As any government, the need a "foreign enemy". Or, in China's case, a handfull of foreign enemies: Japan, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, maybe Malaysia.
- akfanta 13y ago- "foreign enemy" Not saying you are wrong. But this sort of brainwash usually goes two ways. You might not see it, but China, in a way, could well be the same type of foreign enemy of your country.
- snogglethorpe 13y agoMany countries do this sort of thing sometimes... but because China's government stays in power at its own pleasure, without the aid of elections to lend it popular legitimacy every once in a while, and because it's freer to pursue goals that may not have the support of the populace, it may have to resort to such measures more often than governments in other countries.
- scarmig 13y agoI'd say you reverse the causality. The government does this because most mainlanders eat this up. Idiotic jingoism and military adventures are how you win the populace and build your legitimacy. War is the health of the state. The fact that culturally most people seem to see neighboring countries as either outright provinces, historical vassals that should be in their sphere of influences, or monsters that deserve to be raped and pillaged to account for past crimes doesn't help things. Not to say the same thing doesn't occur in my country. It certainly does, and half a million dead in an equally pointless, stupid war does make risible any moral posturing on our part.
- yaix 13y agoIts China who is heating the issue time and time again. With Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam. They even sent troops into India last year. Its only with Russia that they signed a peaceful border agreement two(?) years ago, because Russia would be too strong an enemy to play these kind of games with.
- perlpimp 13y agoJust a crazy thought, if due to some chain of events of this or similar events China devalues Dollar - can a backup currency like cryptocoin(s) be used in result of such emergency? Also I strongly disapprove of imperialist move by China, Filipinos are nice people and no need to be an aggressor against such a small country. my 2c
- Gravityloss 13y agoThis is what the UN was founded for, to handle disputes of territory in a civilized way. Even the league of nations has managed to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land_Islands#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land_Islands#History
- dnqthao 13y agoand 19/1/2014 is the 40th year anniversary of the Battle Of Paracel Islands between China and the then Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands
- Fuxy 13y agoIt seems to me the Chinese are getting cocky and their using god old Chinese ego to fuel their propaganda. I hate to say this but with all the military activity a full blown war is bound to happen soon. Their picking fights left and right or taking strategic military points preparing for a war. Neither sounds good to me.
- ihsw 13y agoI prefer to see it in a bit more relaxed light -- they're checking to see who will pick sides, and which side they will pick, when the shit hits the fan. So they're poking and prodding mainly from a curiosity's standpoint. It's nasty and nobody likes to be pushed around, but nowadays there's a very large difference between what you say and what you do.
- myrandomcomment 13y agoThe USA might get into a war over this with China. It hopefully would end in a quick backdown and sanity on both sides. However the USA not standing up to China on this will lead to WW3 as Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, et.al. all make a run for a nuclear deterrent because the USA could no longer be resided on. The USA standing up to China is less of a risk then not doing so.
- myrandomcomment 13y agoFixed typo: (seems you cannot edit after a comment has been replied to.) "run for a nuclear deterrent because the USA could no longer be relied on." s/resided/relied