6 ms·

... On the one hand, that is pretty messed up. On the other, I'm not OK with Yelp the extortion racket getting advertising.

tunap 13y ago
Exactly what I thought when I read the headline. This feels like a red herring and a straw man out on a snipe hunt.
debt 13y ago
What extortion racket?
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  Well, it really kicked off in ~2009 when this story popped: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/yelp-and-the-business-of-extortion-20/Content?oid=1176635 http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/yelp-and-the-business-... Many owners alleged that they received cold calls from Yelp about negative reviews, offering refuge in exchange for buying advertising on yelp. Yelp didn't have much to say short of denials, but rumours of it ran pretty rampant. Here's a recent response to them by yelp: http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/05/no-yelp-doesnt-extort-small-businesses-see-for-yourself.html http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/05/no-yelp-doesnt-extort-s... Of course, business owners are alleging foul play in the black box filtering algorithm, not the deletion per say, but that's sort of how the rumour evolved anyway. Too much shit has being thrown at yelp, and admittingly not all of it has stuck, but I wouldn't trust anything on there. I don't trust their black box.
  - belorn 13y ago
    How is that different from Google putting bought links at the top for search results? I guess, one could argue that Google do not call companies and say: "You've had a really good website for key words "foo and bar", but the few first one at the top goes elsewhere. Pay us $299 a month and your website will be at the top".
    - markdown 13y ago
      Google puts bought links above and to the side of their search results. These links are clearly separated labelled advertisements and are thus no different to any other online/print advertisements That is not by a very long stretch of the imagination the same as what Yelp does. Yelp offer to bury negative reviews in exchange for payment. That's the very definition of extortion.
      - nocoment 13y ago
        I think the point was that Yelp's algorithm is not clear and is >rumored< to be biased to raise their own income. While google is higher profile and would not keep an intentional practice secret for long, it is also not an entirely neutral party. For example, changing it's algorithms to move businesses lower than other sites (review, blog, forum, etc) may make sense from the user perspective to a degree. But taking that even further works against both the customer and businesses to google's monetary benefit. Then the businesses must purchase SEM from google for searches that were directed at finding the business. Dropping organic list algorithm changes whenever they hurt SEM profit combined with A/B testing to raise conversion rates/revenue on the advertising could end up with an effective extortion racket simply because that is optimal when you have a monopoly.
        markdown 13y ago
        I appreciate your viewpoint, but I'll argue that were Google to do that, it still wouldn't be extortion. There is a ethically a world of difference between: a.) Having the option of paying to appear higher in the rankings (IIRC Yahoo used to do this way back when) and... b.) Getting a call from Yelp informing you of some "anonymous" negative review posted about your business, with the offer of "making it go away" in exchange for cash.

tunap 13y ago

Exactly what I thought when I read the headline. This feels like a red herring and a straw man out on a snipe hunt.

debt 13y ago

What extortion racket?

GhotiFish 13y ago
Well, it really kicked off in ~2009 when this story popped: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/yelp-and-the-business-of-extortion-20/Content?oid=1176635 http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/yelp-and-the-business-... Many owners alleged that they received cold calls from Yelp about negative reviews, offering refuge in exchange for buying advertising on yelp. Yelp didn't have much to say short of denials, but rumours of it ran pretty rampant. Here's a recent response to them by yelp: http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/05/no-yelp-doesnt-extort-small-businesses-see-for-yourself.html http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/05/no-yelp-doesnt-extort-s... Of course, business owners are alleging foul play in the black box filtering algorithm, not the deletion per say, but that's sort of how the rumour evolved anyway. Too much shit has being thrown at yelp, and admittingly not all of it has stuck, but I wouldn't trust anything on there. I don't trust their black box.
- belorn 13y ago
  How is that different from Google putting bought links at the top for search results? I guess, one could argue that Google do not call companies and say: "You've had a really good website for key words "foo and bar", but the few first one at the top goes elsewhere. Pay us $299 a month and your website will be at the top".
  - markdown 13y ago
    Google puts bought links above and to the side of their search results. These links are clearly separated labelled advertisements and are thus no different to any other online/print advertisements That is not by a very long stretch of the imagination the same as what Yelp does. Yelp offer to bury negative reviews in exchange for payment. That's the very definition of extortion.
    - nocoment 13y ago
      I think the point was that Yelp's algorithm is not clear and is >rumored< to be biased to raise their own income. While google is higher profile and would not keep an intentional practice secret for long, it is also not an entirely neutral party. For example, changing it's algorithms to move businesses lower than other sites (review, blog, forum, etc) may make sense from the user perspective to a degree. But taking that even further works against both the customer and businesses to google's monetary benefit. Then the businesses must purchase SEM from google for searches that were directed at finding the business. Dropping organic list algorithm changes whenever they hurt SEM profit combined with A/B testing to raise conversion rates/revenue on the advertising could end up with an effective extortion racket simply because that is optimal when you have a monopoly.
      - markdown 13y ago
        I appreciate your viewpoint, but I'll argue that were Google to do that, it still wouldn't be extortion. There is a ethically a world of difference between: a.) Having the option of paying to appear higher in the rankings (IIRC Yahoo used to do this way back when) and... b.) Getting a call from Yelp informing you of some "anonymous" negative review posted about your business, with the offer of "making it go away" in exchange for cash.