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1. No debt is fairly expensive in this world. Either you need a nontrivial income or a fairly high threshold for ascetic living. 2. Full stomach/quenched thirs
by slurry 13y ago
1. No debt is fairly expensive in this world. Either you need a nontrivial income or a fairly high threshold for ascetic living.
2. Full stomach/quenched thirst is trivial if you don't mind tap water and simple starches, but once you add (depending on your taste) a complement of steak, quinoa, fresh fruits, beer and/or wine - then you run into a little money.
3. Warm place to sleep - anywhere near work? public transport? "good" schools (however you define that)? Gets expensive quick.
3bis. Meaningful intimate loving relationships are easier to maintain if you have at least one weekend day off (i.e. don't have to work 2 or more jobs) and have at least a little cash to go out on the town at least once in a while.
4. Sense that I am valuable - to me, this has always been difficult without a modestly good set of clothes, shoes and a haircut. Others don't feel that way (but less than you'd think). But maintaining a personal sense of one's value is at least somewhat correlated with others' sense of ones' value. And others' sense of one's value is never completely monetarily free.
5-6. Freedom to indulge curiosities and spiritual life - on a low income, you'd better be single and childless. And even then, it's a challenge.
I very much doubt the average person could fulfill those goals to any degree of satisfaction on less than 50k as a single person in a major metro area, not a ton less in the boondocks, and not much less than double that with a partner or spouse.
- Sakes 13y agoWhen I comment on this site I try very hard to say exactly what I mean and nothing more. I believe, but may be mistaken, that you have made some assumptions about what I was saying. Above I asserted an objective truth, and followed it with my list of subjective truths. Objective truth: Sustainable happiness is recognizing what is truly valuable in life and appreciating it. To elaborate, to evaluate the value of everything in life based upon its monetary value would be a mistake and limiting. Then came my list of subjective truths which I prefaced with "For me this is". By subjective I mean I acknowledge that while I hold these to be true, I am unable to prove to you that they are. To address your points: I really need to get back to coding my startup. I will revisit this later. I hope that you continue to discuss this with me even though no one else will care by the time I get back to it. (From the HN community perspective this thread will be most likely dead before this evening)
- Sakes 13y agoSlurry Discussion Continued: If you are making the argument that there is a monetary threshold that needs to be met in order to be happy (for a normal person) I would agree. What that exact threshold is I am not sure. In my youth I had enough to be happy on 40k a year even though I wasn't, but this was due to a lack of understanding/perspective. If you are making the argument that money directly buys happiness, I would say this is a short sighted and incorrect view. Did I summarize your point in either case above? What was your exact point? I'd like to discuss further. Also, pertaining to the specific article, satisfaction and happiness (while similar) are two different things for me. I am not sure why they took a survey concerning satisfaction and assumed that "satisfaction" is synonymous with happiness for all participants.
- slurry 13y agoNot sure we actually disagree. I wasn't taking issue with your main point or your list so much just costing it out (roughly) for my own amusement. Both a sense of perspective and a modicum of cash are necessary but not, imho, by themselves sufficient to be happy. Together maybe they are enough? Maybe not? Idk. Appreciate your continuation of the discussion.
- Sakes 13y agoThanks for the clarification. "Both a sense of perspective and a modicum of cash are necessary but not, imho, by themselves sufficient to be happy." I am 100% in agreement with this.
- zurn 13y agoPoor countries and poor indiviudals tend to have low debt levels.
- slurry 13y agoBeing poor is expensive.
- aestra 13y agoI have no debt and significant savings/investments but that is because I don’t own a house. We have this social expectation in the USA that one must be a homeowner or they are nobody or haven't made it. Even those who can't afford a house have one. I also paid only 12,000 for my small car that is extra fuel efficient instead of buying an expensive car or SUV even though I could afford one.
- slurry 13y agoGood move. IMHO homeownership is inadvisable where it can be avoided.
- alextingle 13y agoOnce you have no debt and a place to sleep, the rest of it is pretty cheap and easy to obtain. I own my house with no debt - a minimal income is quite enough for me. (I'm in the UK, so the NHS deals with health care.)
- slurry 13y agoIsn't this a bit like saying once you have a killer jump shot, basketball is easy? A lot of things are pretty easy once you've got an extremely hard part out of the way.