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Money can buy security and that security increases your happiness. Not having money can make you unhappy. Sustainable happiness is recognizing what is truly va

by Sakes 13y ago

Money can buy security and that security increases your happiness. Not having money can make you unhappy. Sustainable happiness is recognizing what is truly valuable in life and appreciating it. For me this is: 1) No debt 2) Full stomach/quenched thirst 3) A warm place to sleep 3) Meaningful intimate loving relationships 4) A sense that I am valuable (adding value to the world or some subset) 5) Freedom to indulge my curiosities through exploration/experimentation/participation. 6) And in its most abstract definition, freedom to experience a spiritual life.

mertd 13y ago
That is pretty much Maslow's pyramid.
- Sakes 13y ago
  I'm not sure if your comment trivializes or validates mine. But in any event, I am very much a student of the school of hard knocks. Everything I mentioned above are my conclusions derived from over a decade of failures, successes, & self reflection.
  - mertd 13y ago
    It was meant to be an observation, no judgement or opinion. Now that you have provided some background, it is interesting that you produced the same set of priorities in the same order.
slurry 13y ago
1. No debt is fairly expensive in this world. Either you need a nontrivial income or a fairly high threshold for ascetic living. 2. Full stomach/quenched thirst is trivial if you don't mind tap water and simple starches, but once you add (depending on your taste) a complement of steak, quinoa, fresh fruits, beer and/or wine - then you run into a little money. 3. Warm place to sleep - anywhere near work? public transport? "good" schools (however you define that)? Gets expensive quick. 3bis. Meaningful intimate loving relationships are easier to maintain if you have at least one weekend day off (i.e. don't have to work 2 or more jobs) and have at least a little cash to go out on the town at least once in a while. 4. Sense that I am valuable - to me, this has always been difficult without a modestly good set of clothes, shoes and a haircut. Others don't feel that way (but less than you'd think). But maintaining a personal sense of one's value is at least somewhat correlated with others' sense of ones' value. And others' sense of one's value is never completely monetarily free. 5-6. Freedom to indulge curiosities and spiritual life - on a low income, you'd better be single and childless. And even then, it's a challenge. I very much doubt the average person could fulfill those goals to any degree of satisfaction on less than 50k as a single person in a major metro area, not a ton less in the boondocks, and not much less than double that with a partner or spouse.
- Sakes 13y ago
  When I comment on this site I try very hard to say exactly what I mean and nothing more. I believe, but may be mistaken, that you have made some assumptions about what I was saying. Above I asserted an objective truth, and followed it with my list of subjective truths. Objective truth: Sustainable happiness is recognizing what is truly valuable in life and appreciating it. To elaborate, to evaluate the value of everything in life based upon its monetary value would be a mistake and limiting. Then came my list of subjective truths which I prefaced with "For me this is". By subjective I mean I acknowledge that while I hold these to be true, I am unable to prove to you that they are. To address your points: I really need to get back to coding my startup. I will revisit this later. I hope that you continue to discuss this with me even though no one else will care by the time I get back to it. (From the HN community perspective this thread will be most likely dead before this evening)
  - Sakes 13y ago
    Slurry Discussion Continued: If you are making the argument that there is a monetary threshold that needs to be met in order to be happy (for a normal person) I would agree. What that exact threshold is I am not sure. In my youth I had enough to be happy on 40k a year even though I wasn't, but this was due to a lack of understanding/perspective. If you are making the argument that money directly buys happiness, I would say this is a short sighted and incorrect view. Did I summarize your point in either case above? What was your exact point? I'd like to discuss further. Also, pertaining to the specific article, satisfaction and happiness (while similar) are two different things for me. I am not sure why they took a survey concerning satisfaction and assumed that "satisfaction" is synonymous with happiness for all participants.
    - slurry 13y ago
      Not sure we actually disagree. I wasn't taking issue with your main point or your list so much just costing it out (roughly) for my own amusement. Both a sense of perspective and a modicum of cash are necessary but not, imho, by themselves sufficient to be happy. Together maybe they are enough? Maybe not? Idk. Appreciate your continuation of the discussion.
foobarian 13y ago
Should probably put health somewhere near (1).
- Sakes 13y ago
  Good point and you are correct. I would do that, but I think you just did it for me. Thank you.
ZenoArrow 13y ago
I'd agree with all of that, very well put. Perhaps it would be worth extending point 2 to include health in a more general sense.

by Sakes 13y ago

mertd 13y ago

That is pretty much Maslow's pyramid.

Sakes 13y ago
I'm not sure if your comment trivializes or validates mine. But in any event, I am very much a student of the school of hard knocks. Everything I mentioned above are my conclusions derived from over a decade of failures, successes, & self reflection.
- mertd 13y ago
  It was meant to be an observation, no judgement or opinion. Now that you have provided some background, it is interesting that you produced the same set of priorities in the same order.

slurry 13y ago

1. No debt is fairly expensive in this world. Either you need a nontrivial income or a fairly high threshold for ascetic living. 2. Full stomach/quenched thirst is trivial if you don't mind tap water and simple starches, but once you add (depending on your taste) a complement of steak, quinoa, fresh fruits, beer and/or wine - then you run into a little money. 3. Warm place to sleep - anywhere near work? public transport? "good" schools (however you define that)? Gets expensive quick. 3bis. Meaningful intimate loving relationships are easier to maintain if you have at least one weekend day off (i.e. don't have to work 2 or more jobs) and have at least a little cash to go out on the town at least once in a while. 4. Sense that I am valuable - to me, this has always been difficult without a modestly good set of clothes, shoes and a haircut. Others don't feel that way (but less than you'd think). But maintaining a personal sense of one's value is at least somewhat correlated with others' sense of ones' value. And others' sense of one's value is never completely monetarily free. 5-6. Freedom to indulge curiosities and spiritual life - on a low income, you'd better be single and childless. And even then, it's a challenge. I very much doubt the average person could fulfill those goals to any degree of satisfaction on less than 50k as a single person in a major metro area, not a ton less in the boondocks, and not much less than double that with a partner or spouse.

Sakes 13y ago
When I comment on this site I try very hard to say exactly what I mean and nothing more. I believe, but may be mistaken, that you have made some assumptions about what I was saying. Above I asserted an objective truth, and followed it with my list of subjective truths. Objective truth: Sustainable happiness is recognizing what is truly valuable in life and appreciating it. To elaborate, to evaluate the value of everything in life based upon its monetary value would be a mistake and limiting. Then came my list of subjective truths which I prefaced with "For me this is". By subjective I mean I acknowledge that while I hold these to be true, I am unable to prove to you that they are. To address your points: I really need to get back to coding my startup. I will revisit this later. I hope that you continue to discuss this with me even though no one else will care by the time I get back to it. (From the HN community perspective this thread will be most likely dead before this evening)
- Sakes 13y ago
  Slurry Discussion Continued: If you are making the argument that there is a monetary threshold that needs to be met in order to be happy (for a normal person) I would agree. What that exact threshold is I am not sure. In my youth I had enough to be happy on 40k a year even though I wasn't, but this was due to a lack of understanding/perspective. If you are making the argument that money directly buys happiness, I would say this is a short sighted and incorrect view. Did I summarize your point in either case above? What was your exact point? I'd like to discuss further. Also, pertaining to the specific article, satisfaction and happiness (while similar) are two different things for me. I am not sure why they took a survey concerning satisfaction and assumed that "satisfaction" is synonymous with happiness for all participants.
  - slurry 13y ago
    Not sure we actually disagree. I wasn't taking issue with your main point or your list so much just costing it out (roughly) for my own amusement. Both a sense of perspective and a modicum of cash are necessary but not, imho, by themselves sufficient to be happy. Together maybe they are enough? Maybe not? Idk. Appreciate your continuation of the discussion.

foobarian 13y ago

Should probably put health somewhere near (1).

Sakes 13y ago
Good point and you are correct. I would do that, but I think you just did it for me. Thank you.

ZenoArrow 13y ago

I'd agree with all of that, very well put. Perhaps it would be worth extending point 2 to include health in a more general sense.