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I understand what you are trying to say, but I think mercer (in a sibling thread) has it right. A lot of us are in environments that feel like they are designed

by dalai 13y ago

I understand what you are trying to say, but I think mercer (in a sibling thread) has it right. A lot of us are in environments that feel like they are designed to keep us separated after we enter our professional life. This is particularly true for people that have moved by themselves to a different state or country and basically need to build a social circle from scratch. And this gets more difficult as you grow older. I live in a central European country for four years now and I find it extremely hard to meet new people even for a superficial friendship. - I have very few coworkers, but even if I didn’t, people tend to keep professional and private life very separate here. Some actually think they have “enough” friends and you might never get through to them no matter how much you try. - In my home country I would usually meet people through friends of friends, but here my friends will rarely bring anyone else of their circle when we go out (even when asked). - Meetups are also a big failure for me. Most of the time they involve huge groups that are very impersonal. They involve people that are here for a month up to people that have been here for 20-30 years and have their own cliques within the meetup. The first year I kept going to the same meetup and kept introducing myself to the same (more or less) people and held the same discussion over and over. Each meetup was as if I was there for the first time and needless to say, I didn’t make a single friend from that. Even in the smaller ones, it seems that most participate either to spend a night away from their spouse/“real” friends or just for the activity. - Going up to talk to random strangers is also not very common here, but even if it was, it is unfortunately impossible for me. I feel incredibly self-conscious and uncomfortable. I tried it when I was in the US where people are more open and I honestly hated myself. I doubt PUA literature would help. Anyway, I don't want to be too negative and I also have me to blame for the situation. What I wanted to highlight is that it also depends on the cultural environment and the particular circumstances. To me, it is quite indicative that we have dating websites and meetups and social web sites and whatnot but we are generally more lonely.

apunic 13y ago
Thanks for your reply. I don't have the time to answer your post in detail, so I give some brief thoughts. I don't know how big your city is but maybe you should consider to relocate. Capitals are usually the way to go, most people, open minds. Also some countries/mentalities are more open and some not, so maybe you should change the country, too. Don't get me wrong but your post sounds pretty negative, I agree that getting out of loneliness is hard but it's not impossible. And believe me there is some life-changing pua literature out there which is very sophisticated and rather about deep psychological concepts. So, don't judge them before reading them yourself. > it also depends on the cultural environment and the particular circumstances Then, why don't you change them?
- dalai 13y ago
  > I agree that getting out of loneliness is hard but it's not impossible. I don't disagree there. My point (which I probably didn't really make) was that you can't have a recipe for it. Too much depends on the particularities of the person and their situation. > I don't know how big your city is I live in Munich, which for Germany is big and quite international. > Don't get me wrong but your post sounds pretty negative Maybe I focused too much on the bad stuff. I do have some friends, I do have the opportunity to go out from time to time. It is just that these relationships are superficial and not as fulfilling. Curiously, others do not seem to mind at all. > Then, why don't you change them? I am actually in the process of doing that even though, professionally, it is probably a bad move. I've been applying to different places and positions for some time now, unfortunately I haven't had much luck so far due to various reasons.
  - apunic 13y ago
    Munich is neither bad nor small but still I can imagine that finding friends there is hard: in Munich you find those networks and circles which exist for decades and over generations. The people are nice but the fluctuation is too small, the city is not dynamic, night-life is quite limited, you would need 10 years to get into the society and still some parts would not welcome you. => change quickly to a real capital
    - sasvari 13y ago
      Munich is neither bad nor small but still I can imagine that finding friends there is hard: in Munich you find those networks and circles which exist for decades and over generations. The people are nice but the fluctuation is too small Compared to the US, you find decades old networks and circles nearly in every part/city of Europe (at least in Germany). This is just a result of a quite immobile society until recently. In Munich, fluctuation among young professionals (20-40) is actually pretty high, or at least higher as you describe: Munich is one of Germany's economic powerhouses with lots of German graduates and professionals from the rest of Europe moving to. the city is not dynamic, night-life is quite limited, you would need 10 years to get into the society and still some parts would not welcome you. I don't really know what you want to imply here: how do you define dynamic? And what should it mean in this context? Munich might not be as dynamic as London/NYC/SF/Berlin/whatever, but calling it not dynamic doesn't do it justice. The rest of your statement is also very prejudiced: it does not take you 10 years to get into the society, and that some parts of every society are not open to foreigners is neither unique to Munich, nor to Germany or Europe. Regarding Munich night-life: it is definitely not comparable to Berlin night-life, but still it is quite vibrant. There are two of Germany's biggest universities in Munich, and roughly >110k students in the city. In summer time the whole city is out drinking/eating in one of the millions of beer gardens where it is quite common to sit with total strangers at the same table. => change quickly to a real capital Depending on your field, Munich sometimes is THE place to go/work in Germany: i.e. you won't find a lot of engineering positions in Berlin, but lots of in Munich (or generally speaking in southern Germany; but then Munich most probably is the most open/international city there).

by dalai 13y ago

apunic 13y ago

Thanks for your reply. I don't have the time to answer your post in detail, so I give some brief thoughts. I don't know how big your city is but maybe you should consider to relocate. Capitals are usually the way to go, most people, open minds. Also some countries/mentalities are more open and some not, so maybe you should change the country, too. Don't get me wrong but your post sounds pretty negative, I agree that getting out of loneliness is hard but it's not impossible. And believe me there is some life-changing pua literature out there which is very sophisticated and rather about deep psychological concepts. So, don't judge them before reading them yourself. > it also depends on the cultural environment and the particular circumstances Then, why don't you change them?

dalai 13y ago
> I agree that getting out of loneliness is hard but it's not impossible. I don't disagree there. My point (which I probably didn't really make) was that you can't have a recipe for it. Too much depends on the particularities of the person and their situation. > I don't know how big your city is I live in Munich, which for Germany is big and quite international. > Don't get me wrong but your post sounds pretty negative Maybe I focused too much on the bad stuff. I do have some friends, I do have the opportunity to go out from time to time. It is just that these relationships are superficial and not as fulfilling. Curiously, others do not seem to mind at all. > Then, why don't you change them? I am actually in the process of doing that even though, professionally, it is probably a bad move. I've been applying to different places and positions for some time now, unfortunately I haven't had much luck so far due to various reasons.
- apunic 13y ago
  Munich is neither bad nor small but still I can imagine that finding friends there is hard: in Munich you find those networks and circles which exist for decades and over generations. The people are nice but the fluctuation is too small, the city is not dynamic, night-life is quite limited, you would need 10 years to get into the society and still some parts would not welcome you. => change quickly to a real capital
  - sasvari 13y ago
    Munich is neither bad nor small but still I can imagine that finding friends there is hard: in Munich you find those networks and circles which exist for decades and over generations. The people are nice but the fluctuation is too small Compared to the US, you find decades old networks and circles nearly in every part/city of Europe (at least in Germany). This is just a result of a quite immobile society until recently. In Munich, fluctuation among young professionals (20-40) is actually pretty high, or at least higher as you describe: Munich is one of Germany's economic powerhouses with lots of German graduates and professionals from the rest of Europe moving to. the city is not dynamic, night-life is quite limited, you would need 10 years to get into the society and still some parts would not welcome you. I don't really know what you want to imply here: how do you define dynamic? And what should it mean in this context? Munich might not be as dynamic as London/NYC/SF/Berlin/whatever, but calling it not dynamic doesn't do it justice. The rest of your statement is also very prejudiced: it does not take you 10 years to get into the society, and that some parts of every society are not open to foreigners is neither unique to Munich, nor to Germany or Europe. Regarding Munich night-life: it is definitely not comparable to Berlin night-life, but still it is quite vibrant. There are two of Germany's biggest universities in Munich, and roughly >110k students in the city. In summer time the whole city is out drinking/eating in one of the millions of beer gardens where it is quite common to sit with total strangers at the same table. => change quickly to a real capital Depending on your field, Munich sometimes is THE place to go/work in Germany: i.e. you won't find a lot of engineering positions in Berlin, but lots of in Munich (or generally speaking in southern Germany; but then Munich most probably is the most open/international city there).