4 ms·

In regards to subjective happiness and income, I like to pose the question: Would you rather earn $80,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $100,000

by marquis 13y ago

In regards to subjective happiness and income, I like to pose the question: Would you rather earn $80,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $100,000, or would you rather earn $100,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $80,000. Money and happiness is entirely subjective according to your environment.

amiune 13y ago
I guess you mean: "Would you rather earn $800,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $1,000,000, or would you rather earn $100,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $80,000."
- marquis 13y ago
  Yes I think that's how it went!
- DavidWoof 13y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see either this or the original even remotely as a difficult question. Making 80% of the median income is completely within normal ranges; it seems to me it would be barely noticeable in both cases. On the other hand, the difference between US$100,000 and US$800,000 is gigantic, it's a complete change in lifestyle and security. Seriously, does anyone here actually find either question to pose a true dilemma?
  - joshmlewis 13y ago
    No I agree with you. From what I've seen most families income could fluctuate that much between husband/wife work situations. Pay cuts, or bonuses, etc.
  - marquis 13y ago
    Take a village. Everyone earns $100,000 except you. You earn $80,000. How do you feel? Now reverse it. You earn $100,000. Everyone else earns $80,000. How do you feel? Those base feelings explains consumerism and envy.
    - DavidWoof 13y ago
      I'd rather make $100K than $80K. Period. At those ratios, my neighbors just don't enter into the equation. Now, I might be uncomfortable making $100K when my neighbors made $400K. That's an identifiable difference, and it would really mark me as the poor person in the neighborhood. But a 20% difference from the mean? I wouldn't even notice it.
    - consz 13y ago
      What? Does anyone choose the first option over the second one? The second one seems unequivocally better.
robg 13y ago
Re-phrased: Would you rather make $100k in San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Miami, or Havana?
- thatthatis 13y ago
  You could buy half of Havana on an income like that.
  - tspike 13y ago
    ...but you could barely buy a car: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/01/09/261111796/cuba-land-of-the-250-000-family-sedan http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/01/09/261111796/cuba...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rtpg 13y ago
Depends on where you are. After all, living in a rich environment might get you better public services. And it's not like you exchange salaries with everyone you meet.
- marquis 13y ago
  It's a thought experiment. Assume that both neighbourhoods provide the same services.
  - randomdata 13y ago
    Does it even matter what your neighbours are making? I've made four figures living among millionaires and I've made six figures living among people living on welfare. I didn't really feel any different in either spot. Challenging yourself to earn more, and actually seeing the numbers rise, is where the joy comes from, at least in my experience. If you are challenging yourself and your income isn't rising (or falling, even) it is pretty disheartening. If you aren't challenging yourself, I expect life becomes pretty boring. Either way, I can see why happiness is linked to income deltas, even once the basic means are covered and presumably people with higher incomes have seen more changes.
    - marquis 13y ago
      I don't necessarily feel this way either however it's a thought experiment to pose in regards to the concept of "keeping up with the jones's" and explains a large part of the population's consumerist drive.
    - ryandrake 13y ago
      The more well-off people around you are, the less-well-off you are, since their increased wealth increases demand and prices rise. See, for example, Bay Area home prices.
    - paulhauggis 13y ago
      "Does it even matter what your neighbours are making?" Yes. If you make significantly more than the people around you, it's more difficult to make friends with the people in your community. If they know, people will ask you for money, treat you differently, and some will be jealous. It's sad..but true. "If you are challenging yourself and your income isn't rising (or falling, even) it is pretty disheartening" Welcome to pretty much every 9-5 job.
beachstartup 13y ago
this is a highly personal answer. it depends on a person's specific mechanisms of motivation and satisfaction. i realize this is a hypothetical "thought experiment", but you can see how this actually plays out in reality. i've done both. i've lived in areas where i made significantly more than my neighbors (regular apartment complex in the middle of LA/hollywood), and now i live in a place where i make significantly less (i live in a modest condo next to giant $5-10M houses in santa monica and ultra-mansions a short distance further - think 'lower pac heights' in SF-speak) it's obviously better living next to rich neighbors. everything in the neighborhood is much nicer, and i get to enjoy a lot of their wealth indirectly. for example, i live next to some of the best hospitals in the country. the public parks are ridiculously nice and all the streets are basically perfectly conditioned. seeing nice things/home/cars and rich people is also an aspirational trigger for me. also, for a very slightly higher prices on the things i actually buy, i get to enjoy better food and shopping. in the other, poorer neighborhood where i made more money, everything was shitty (for US standards). the roads were in disrepair, there was crime, the food wasn't nearly as good, there was constant police activity, the roads would be blocked for public events, etc. seeing broke or down-and-out people everywhere bumemd it out. it was just an overall hassle. if you took the median income from both areas, it probably wouldn't deviate by more than 50 grand. there are rich people in both areas. but one is significantly better than the other. i really wouldn't understand the opposite point of view, that living next to poorer people is somehow better. perhaps if you lived in an imginary WORLD where you made significantly more than the rest of the people, but in the real world it's all about locales.
- marquis 13y ago
  It's really just an thought experiment in understanding why events rise such as extreme materialistic consumerism and social envy: if all factors are irrelevant the experiment makes sense in explaining otherwise inexplicable consumerist behaviour such as that we might generalize from the lower socioeconomic classes watching reality tv.

by marquis 13y ago

amiune 13y ago

I guess you mean: "Would you rather earn $800,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $1,000,000, or would you rather earn $100,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $80,000."

marquis 13y ago
Yes I think that's how it went!
DavidWoof 13y ago
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see either this or the original even remotely as a difficult question. Making 80% of the median income is completely within normal ranges; it seems to me it would be barely noticeable in both cases. On the other hand, the difference between US$100,000 and US$800,000 is gigantic, it's a complete change in lifestyle and security. Seriously, does anyone here actually find either question to pose a true dilemma?
- joshmlewis 13y ago
  No I agree with you. From what I've seen most families income could fluctuate that much between husband/wife work situations. Pay cuts, or bonuses, etc.
- marquis 13y ago
  Take a village. Everyone earns $100,000 except you. You earn $80,000. How do you feel? Now reverse it. You earn $100,000. Everyone else earns $80,000. How do you feel? Those base feelings explains consumerism and envy.
  - DavidWoof 13y ago
    I'd rather make $100K than $80K. Period. At those ratios, my neighbors just don't enter into the equation. Now, I might be uncomfortable making $100K when my neighbors made $400K. That's an identifiable difference, and it would really mark me as the poor person in the neighborhood. But a 20% difference from the mean? I wouldn't even notice it.
  - consz 13y ago
    What? Does anyone choose the first option over the second one? The second one seems unequivocally better.

robg 13y ago

Re-phrased: Would you rather make $100k in San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Miami, or Havana?

thatthatis 13y ago
You could buy half of Havana on an income like that.
- tspike 13y ago
  ...but you could barely buy a car: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/01/09/261111796/cuba-land-of-the-250-000-family-sedan http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/01/09/261111796/cuba...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rtpg 13y ago

Depends on where you are. After all, living in a rich environment might get you better public services. And it's not like you exchange salaries with everyone you meet.

marquis 13y ago
It's a thought experiment. Assume that both neighbourhoods provide the same services.
- randomdata 13y ago
  Does it even matter what your neighbours are making? I've made four figures living among millionaires and I've made six figures living among people living on welfare. I didn't really feel any different in either spot. Challenging yourself to earn more, and actually seeing the numbers rise, is where the joy comes from, at least in my experience. If you are challenging yourself and your income isn't rising (or falling, even) it is pretty disheartening. If you aren't challenging yourself, I expect life becomes pretty boring. Either way, I can see why happiness is linked to income deltas, even once the basic means are covered and presumably people with higher incomes have seen more changes.
  - marquis 13y ago
    I don't necessarily feel this way either however it's a thought experiment to pose in regards to the concept of "keeping up with the jones's" and explains a large part of the population's consumerist drive.
  - ryandrake 13y ago
    The more well-off people around you are, the less-well-off you are, since their increased wealth increases demand and prices rise. See, for example, Bay Area home prices.
  - paulhauggis 13y ago
    "Does it even matter what your neighbours are making?" Yes. If you make significantly more than the people around you, it's more difficult to make friends with the people in your community. If they know, people will ask you for money, treat you differently, and some will be jealous. It's sad..but true. "If you are challenging yourself and your income isn't rising (or falling, even) it is pretty disheartening" Welcome to pretty much every 9-5 job.

beachstartup 13y ago

this is a highly personal answer. it depends on a person's specific mechanisms of motivation and satisfaction. i realize this is a hypothetical "thought experiment", but you can see how this actually plays out in reality. i've done both. i've lived in areas where i made significantly more than my neighbors (regular apartment complex in the middle of LA/hollywood), and now i live in a place where i make significantly less (i live in a modest condo next to giant $5-10M houses in santa monica and ultra-mansions a short distance further - think 'lower pac heights' in SF-speak) it's obviously better living next to rich neighbors. everything in the neighborhood is much nicer, and i get to enjoy a lot of their wealth indirectly. for example, i live next to some of the best hospitals in the country. the public parks are ridiculously nice and all the streets are basically perfectly conditioned. seeing nice things/home/cars and rich people is also an aspirational trigger for me. also, for a very slightly higher prices on the things i actually buy, i get to enjoy better food and shopping. in the other, poorer neighborhood where i made more money, everything was shitty (for US standards). the roads were in disrepair, there was crime, the food wasn't nearly as good, there was constant police activity, the roads would be blocked for public events, etc. seeing broke or down-and-out people everywhere bumemd it out. it was just an overall hassle. if you took the median income from both areas, it probably wouldn't deviate by more than 50 grand. there are rich people in both areas. but one is significantly better than the other. i really wouldn't understand the opposite point of view, that living next to poorer people is somehow better. perhaps if you lived in an imginary WORLD where you made significantly more than the rest of the people, but in the real world it's all about locales.

marquis 13y ago
It's really just an thought experiment in understanding why events rise such as extreme materialistic consumerism and social envy: if all factors are irrelevant the experiment makes sense in explaining otherwise inexplicable consumerist behaviour such as that we might generalize from the lower socioeconomic classes watching reality tv.