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The Goths (actually two separate peoples, the Ostrogoths and later the Visigoths) , as with the Huns moved into central and southern Europe from the Steppe - no
by JacobAldridge 13y ago
The Goths (actually two separate peoples, the Ostrogoths and later the Visigoths) , as with the Huns moved into central and southern Europe from the Steppe - not Germany - towards the end of the Roman Empire (the Visigoths sacked Rome on 24 August 410). They weren't Germanic, unlike the Angles, Saxons and Jutes that moved to / invaded the land of the Britons, and even tribes like the Francs who moved into Gaul as the Western Roman Empire lost influence.
I think you're right about the use of Viking being early, but some of the other elements differ from my understanding.
Two awesome sidebars from that period - another Germanic tribe, the Vandals, wrought havoc moving through what would become France and Spain. And a tribe of Scots were forced from their ancestral home ... in modern day Ireland. They replaced the earlier Picts in the land ultimately named after them.
[Edit: Corrected the Sacking of Rome date - I was out by 2 weeks. So worth clarifying that this is from my memory of university history courses, not a fact-checked review.]
- BugBrother 13y agoIs the origin of the Goths new research? The sources I've seen (Jordanes, the Silver Bible's language) said that the Goths were Germanic. Around a decade ago, I know an archeologist that got research money for the Goth's origin, it wasn't known then. Edit: As a Swede, this is important. I like to tell people that after the Mongols, most everything bad that happened to Europe came from Scandinavia... Goths, Vikings, 30 year war, Ikea, slimy pop... :-)
- JacobAldridge 13y agoMy studies, and ergo my memory, go back 10-12 years so no new research, and alas none of my sources to hand. Some quick Googling points to Gothic origins on the Black Sea, but also sources that refer to them as East Germanic. In that regard, I have to point out btilly's original description of Goths as an example of a Germanic tribe may be correct, though it still differs from my understanding (pending some refreshers on my behalf).
- fhars 13y agoThe Goths settled in the Black Sea region until the late 18th century, but they certainly did not originate there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths#Migration_to_the_Black_Sea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths#Migration_to_the_Black_Se...
- arethuza 13y agoThe founding myth of the Scots: Fergus Mór and his brothers Angus and Lorn sailed from Ireland with the Lia Fáil (the Stone of Destiny[1]) and established his kingdom of Dál Riata in the 6th century that eventually conquered the Picts in the 9th century to form the basis for Scotland. However, the idea of a simple Irish "invasion" seems to be out of favour with archaeologists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata NB I've stood with my (booted) foot in the footprint on Dunadd where the first Kings of Scots, and maybe Fergus Mor were crowned ~1600 years ago - it's quite an interesting spot! [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone Edit: The idea that Scotland was founded by an invasion from Ireland is rather ironic given (much) later history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster
- fhars 13y agoThe Goths were a germanic tribe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths, speaking a germanic language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language, and unlike the huns, they did not move out of the steppe into Europe, but out of Götaland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6taland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6taland
- bocajuniors 13y agoThis is a myth created by swedish 19th-century nationalists. I am a native of Götalamd.
- leoc 13y ago> And a tribe of Scots were forced from their ancestral home ... in modern day Ireland. They replaced the earlier Picts in the land ultimately named after them. Don't forget the Welsh-speakers who, for example, founded Edinburgh: I see arethuza has already mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Gododdin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Gododdin .
- throwawaykf03 13y agoFunny that the first I heard of Goths, Ostrogoths and Visigoths was in an Asterix comic. I now wonder how much of the Asterix universe is historically accurate.
- btilly 13y agoI now wonder how much of the Asterix universe is historically accurate. Most of it! That is what makes it so funny! It is chock full of references to actual historical stuff, and in jokes that you have to know a lot to get. You can enjoy it as slapstick, but there is tremendous depth to the series. I'm always amazed that it never caught on in the USA. Certainly everyone I've introduced it to has liked it!