8 ms·

You seem to be knowledgeable about this topic. Have you ever heard about bioenergetics? If not, the general premise is that neurosis is expressed physically in

You seem to be knowledgeable about this topic. Have you ever heard about bioenergetics? If not, the general premise is that neurosis is expressed physically in the musculature. Specific kinds of movements can target and eliminate neurosis, which emerges as tension in chronically contracted muscles. Any exercise is bound to help somewhat, probably for more reasons than something like bioenergetics can claim, but still there are specific approaches for eliminating neurotic behavior in different character types. These specific exercises are accompanied by psychoanalysis in order to cultivate a conscious relationship between the mental and physical constructs of the patient's neurosis. It seems like a pretty obvious insight to me now, having read a little bit about the subject. For example, flinching is a very pronounced, instinctual movement, and occurs in response to danger, right? So, if our environment can impel us to move, then certainly there are other movements, like flinches, that are more subtle in their expression, but reflect some internal, psychological mechanism, like a response to fear. Perception of body language, such as bad posture, supports this. I have yet to read a satisfactory amount of info about the subject, but I can recommend what little I've read if anyone's interested.

blendergasket 13y ago
I'd be really interested in scientific information about this. I have been practicing Qigong for a little more than a year and a half and I can absolutely say that it is the best thing that has ever happened to me. It feels like it's tapping right into what it seems you're talking about. It's amazing, the power of the body (which, in a dualistic culture like I've grown up in may be an overly reductive word).
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  You won't find scientific information about it, because like Qigong, it's pseudoscience.
  - h1karu 13y ago
    For approximately 500 years [science's] argument for its pre-eminence was that it could create beautiful toys: aircraft, railroads, global economies, television, spacecraft. But that is a fool’s argument for truth! I mean, that’s after all how a medicine show operates, you know: the juggler is so good, the medicine must be even better! This is not an entirely rational way to proceed. -Terrence Mckenna
    - nmeofthestate 13y ago
      "Chi" "flowing through the body"? And, from another comment "quasi-quantum biological enzymes"? (NB: quantum theory pseudo-scientific-bollocks klaxon) Qigong may get results, but it's certainly pseudoscience. And I bet science will be what eventually explains why it gets results.
      - jvagner 13y ago
        what's the name for things in science that will be proven in 20 years, but can't be proven today? what are the limits of science? i'd also recommend the book "the divided mind" by john sarno to readers of this thread.
        nmeofthestate 13y ago
        "Ghosts are simply the dark-matter manifestations of a quantum string theory enzyme" is an example of pseudo science. Pseudo science is the wittering of sciency sounding nonsense that purports to be an explanation for something. Any vague chat about "energy" "flowing" like the above is pseudo science.
        h1karu 13y ago
        I think that you're just quibbling over lexiconic ownership rights. You seem to think that the domain of science owns all of the words that modern man needs in order to describe the direct felt experience of what science has not yet been able to measure. Words like energy and flow are often used as metaphors so their use does not automatically imply that one is trying to pass anything off as hard science. Even the word quantum can be used as a pointer to the idea of non-duality or non-locality without implying a direct connection to hard science. It all just depends on how it's used and what the person was actually trying to get across. I think that the label 'pseudo science' should be reserved for when a person is definitely trying to invoke hard science when it is uncalled for. It should not be applied haphazardly whenever a person uses a particular set of keywords. After all we are thinking human beings capable of extracting many layers of meaning from sentences beyond a mere analysis of keywords aren't we ? Then again I suppose there are quite a large number of bots posting on the Internet these days. sigh
- hosh 13y ago
  Qigong and neigong do tap into this, so you are in good company :-) I doubt we will see any significant scientific research on this until our models of consciousness get sophisticated enough. I have seen a promising theory about quasi-quantum effects of biological enzymes, some of which resemble the non-dual states you can get while in deep vipassana jnana. It involves a complex-adaptive interaction between observer effects and non-localities that essentially "searches" different possibility and solves optimization problems. However, talking with some friends knowledgable about that, they say these theories are difficult to verify. At the end of the day, this stuff is all about experiencing, and we don't have adequate science around the nature and mechanism of experiencing. Most of the research is around behavior because behavior is easy to observe and measure. Self-reporting has problems, though that study on emotional mapping seemed to have gotten around that. But until we figure out the methods to observe experience directly (and doesn't that sound like a contradiction?), I am not sure we will make much progress on it. Besides, you don't need to know how the light switch work to turn it on. (Though you do need to know if you want to design a better light switch).
hosh 13y ago
Yes I have, I just generally don't talk about it much on Y(HN) or public forums in general. Meditation, qigong (as someone had mentioned further down in this thread), and other modalities work on this. So can psychedelics, if you pay attention to your body during your experience. Although any exercise can help much, there are some that are specific for a class of emotion and body sensations. The arms opening wide is an example, and what I wrote was the watered down version. The fuller version has you flexing your shoulder blades while simultaneously rotating your shoulders (either forward and backward) and concentrating with your mind on openness. That's probably too much to try for folks who are just getting their feet wet in this. Likewise, hatha yoga is all about assuming body postures and emotional attitudes. I have friends who use hatha yoga to recover from their extreme sporting activities (:D) but it's actually meant to take you beyond what people typically think of as "health". So there is quite a bit on this literature, some of them going pretty deep in the woo.
- loupeabody 13y ago
  Do you have any experience with embryonic breathing? I'd be really interested in reading more about what you have to say on this topic.
  - hosh 13y ago
    Let's take it to PM -- either on Quora or on Twitter (@hosheng). I don't usually check Twitter, but I'll poke around the next couple days.
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    FYI, an embryo is just a tiny lump of cells. It doesn't do any breathing until well into the foetus stage. Similarly I've heard some yoga position described as "embryonic torsion", when it's obviously intended to refer to the foetal position :)
    - hosh 13y ago
      "Embryonic breathing" is a specific term badly translated from a Chinese technical jargon. I'm sure you mean well in educating people about scientific facts, but we're not discussing anything in the scientific literature.

blendergasket 13y ago

I'd be really interested in scientific information about this. I have been practicing Qigong for a little more than a year and a half and I can absolutely say that it is the best thing that has ever happened to me. It feels like it's tapping right into what it seems you're talking about. It's amazing, the power of the body (which, in a dualistic culture like I've grown up in may be an overly reductive word).

lawnchair_larry 13y ago
You won't find scientific information about it, because like Qigong, it's pseudoscience.
- h1karu 13y ago
  For approximately 500 years [science's] argument for its pre-eminence was that it could create beautiful toys: aircraft, railroads, global economies, television, spacecraft. But that is a fool’s argument for truth! I mean, that’s after all how a medicine show operates, you know: the juggler is so good, the medicine must be even better! This is not an entirely rational way to proceed. -Terrence Mckenna
  - nmeofthestate 13y ago
    "Chi" "flowing through the body"? And, from another comment "quasi-quantum biological enzymes"? (NB: quantum theory pseudo-scientific-bollocks klaxon) Qigong may get results, but it's certainly pseudoscience. And I bet science will be what eventually explains why it gets results.
    - jvagner 13y ago
      what's the name for things in science that will be proven in 20 years, but can't be proven today? what are the limits of science? i'd also recommend the book "the divided mind" by john sarno to readers of this thread.
      - nmeofthestate 13y ago
        "Ghosts are simply the dark-matter manifestations of a quantum string theory enzyme" is an example of pseudo science. Pseudo science is the wittering of sciency sounding nonsense that purports to be an explanation for something. Any vague chat about "energy" "flowing" like the above is pseudo science.
        h1karu 13y ago
        I think that you're just quibbling over lexiconic ownership rights. You seem to think that the domain of science owns all of the words that modern man needs in order to describe the direct felt experience of what science has not yet been able to measure. Words like energy and flow are often used as metaphors so their use does not automatically imply that one is trying to pass anything off as hard science. Even the word quantum can be used as a pointer to the idea of non-duality or non-locality without implying a direct connection to hard science. It all just depends on how it's used and what the person was actually trying to get across. I think that the label 'pseudo science' should be reserved for when a person is definitely trying to invoke hard science when it is uncalled for. It should not be applied haphazardly whenever a person uses a particular set of keywords. After all we are thinking human beings capable of extracting many layers of meaning from sentences beyond a mere analysis of keywords aren't we ? Then again I suppose there are quite a large number of bots posting on the Internet these days. sigh
hosh 13y ago
Qigong and neigong do tap into this, so you are in good company :-) I doubt we will see any significant scientific research on this until our models of consciousness get sophisticated enough. I have seen a promising theory about quasi-quantum effects of biological enzymes, some of which resemble the non-dual states you can get while in deep vipassana jnana. It involves a complex-adaptive interaction between observer effects and non-localities that essentially "searches" different possibility and solves optimization problems. However, talking with some friends knowledgable about that, they say these theories are difficult to verify. At the end of the day, this stuff is all about experiencing, and we don't have adequate science around the nature and mechanism of experiencing. Most of the research is around behavior because behavior is easy to observe and measure. Self-reporting has problems, though that study on emotional mapping seemed to have gotten around that. But until we figure out the methods to observe experience directly (and doesn't that sound like a contradiction?), I am not sure we will make much progress on it. Besides, you don't need to know how the light switch work to turn it on. (Though you do need to know if you want to design a better light switch).

hosh 13y ago

Yes I have, I just generally don't talk about it much on Y(HN) or public forums in general. Meditation, qigong (as someone had mentioned further down in this thread), and other modalities work on this. So can psychedelics, if you pay attention to your body during your experience. Although any exercise can help much, there are some that are specific for a class of emotion and body sensations. The arms opening wide is an example, and what I wrote was the watered down version. The fuller version has you flexing your shoulder blades while simultaneously rotating your shoulders (either forward and backward) and concentrating with your mind on openness. That's probably too much to try for folks who are just getting their feet wet in this. Likewise, hatha yoga is all about assuming body postures and emotional attitudes. I have friends who use hatha yoga to recover from their extreme sporting activities (:D) but it's actually meant to take you beyond what people typically think of as "health". So there is quite a bit on this literature, some of them going pretty deep in the woo.

loupeabody 13y ago
Do you have any experience with embryonic breathing? I'd be really interested in reading more about what you have to say on this topic.
- hosh 13y ago
  Let's take it to PM -- either on Quora or on Twitter (@hosheng). I don't usually check Twitter, but I'll poke around the next couple days.
- tripzilch 13y ago
  FYI, an embryo is just a tiny lump of cells. It doesn't do any breathing until well into the foetus stage. Similarly I've heard some yoga position described as "embryonic torsion", when it's obviously intended to refer to the foetal position :)
  - hosh 13y ago
    "Embryonic breathing" is a specific term badly translated from a Chinese technical jargon. I'm sure you mean well in educating people about scientific facts, but we're not discussing anything in the scientific literature.