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Internet Entrepreneurship: How to Avoid Becoming a Stressed-Out Loner

99 points by Red_Tarsius 13y ago

jaiball 13y ago
another casualty here.
mumbi 13y ago
does it bug anybody else that the alt text is in the stress level screenshot?
kermal 13y ago
"The Struggle is when you wonder why you started the company in the first place. [...] The Struggle is not failure, but it causes failure. Especially if you are weak. Always if you are weak." So untrue. You are not weak if you quit ! And conversely, you are not strong if you don't quit. Sometimes, you should quit, and it takes courage to do so: when you gave so much to your project that quitting breaks your heart.
- 31reasons 13y ago
  It was kind of funny to read the whole "Struggle" part. My response is, Nobody is forcing you to go through the struggle. Live in Bangladesh for $1/day and you will know Struggle. Whoever wrote it is seriously need to get some perspective.
  - mercer 13y ago
    And while the author is at it, he should stop complaining about anything because there is always someone worse off than him!
jborden13 13y ago
Beautiful post. Abstract out the gaming aspect, and throw in a couple of kids, and I would've believed that I had written it. In my experience, it only gets harder once you start reproducing. All that kick ass time you have to decompress (hot Yoga, etc.), is now replaced with home stress (which is >= work stress) - and it only compounds everything. I find that I increasingly crave human interaction (besides screaming children and agro SO), and really appreciate human connection more and more, when it does happen. But sometimes that human interaction comes at a cost of productivity and therein lies the rub. My cutoff for work is supposed to be 11pm (shutdown all devices and decompress for at least 30min befor bed), but eventually things flare up - I'm up until 2am for a few weeks and forget all about my 'cutoff'. A few months later, I realize that I need a cutoff again. Vicious cycle. Sorry, I'm rambling. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that you are not alone - I think it's the price we pay, but it's always good to be smart about our approach.
darklrd 13y ago
Very beautiful put and aptly said. And, yes in the end, it's worth the reward.
regal 13y ago
Am I the only one who spends 16 hours in front of a computer (mostly) working 6 days a week, managing staff exclusively through email and oDesk, and loves it? Maybe it's because I view the entrepreneurship stage as the filling between two sides of the cookie sandwich, with tons of partying, debauchery, and socialization in the years before I got into it, and tons of it on the other side once the damn thing's finally making enough money to hire a real management team to watch the stables for a while, while I go out and take a years-in-the-making vacation to end all vacations... then come back and get to work until I don't feel like working on business anymore. I also don't use Facebook, Twitter, or anything else along those lines... if you want to reach me, you can email me, and I'll respond when I check email once every few days, or if you're one of the very few people who has access to my phone, you can call or text me and we can chat or grab dinner. No cyberstalking or hours lost to staring at social media inanity wondering why I'm not a part of all the pretend-excitement people portray themselves as engaging in for me. Wonder if this vicarious living through people's puffed up social lives on social media isn't a big part of why the author feels so left out.
- User8712 13y ago
  Same here, I love nearly every minute of it. If I sold out tomorrow, I'd start another project and work the same hours. Here's an idea for a HN developer. Setup a site where entrepreneurs can hangout and chat daily. This next point is going to sound crazy, but only have the site online for 1 hour (or maybe two 1 hour sessions) a day. This way, we're not distracted to check the site on a constant basis, but it's more of a 1 hr daily meeting, where you can jump in, network, chat about your project, what you're working on, technologies, etc. Associate everyone with their related app or business, so you'll see 'Michael Gnade (IndieGameStand.com)', etc.
  - gojomo 13y ago
    Can't remember the name, but heard a while back about a system that gathered independent freelancers/entrepreneurs in small groups (3-4?), and set up regular capped-length conference calls (20m?) where by convention each spoke for just a few minutes. It was creating a chance for check-in and follow-through – accountability to peers, even if not collaborators – without the open-ended digressions of other meetups. The person who mentioned it spoke highly of it – so there's definitely something to your suggestion, if the participants and boundaries are set well.
city41 13y ago
People with experience with this, what do you think of coworking spaces? They seem like a great solution to the loneliness and can even yield some nice networking. Any downsides to them?
- chrisduesing 13y ago
  They are loud. Then again I am a programmer, so headphones can solve the only real downside for me. I don't have to make calls all day. But to more specifically address your offering a coworking space as a solution to meeting other people. It probably comes down to personality, but I am an introvert and find it very difficult to just start talking to someone. So, it ends up a bit like being at a party full of strangers. You are pretty sure there are some cool people around, but have no idea what the first step is for locating them and then breaking the ice. There are sometimes happy hour type events, but people tend to group up with people they already know and give you the 'what do you want' look if you start the slow awkward approach. Again, there are lots of people who are good at this, I am not one of them. To summarize, it can be a good solution or not depending on your personality. My solution is to schedule lunches with my friends and people I have met who were interesting. That lowers the burden of meeting new people at the coworking space, which can then happen a little more organically.
  - jotm 13y ago
    What if it was a coworking space that first introduced the members, what they do and what their plans are, etc (as an ice breaker). Being able to gather many entrepreneurial minds in one building is quite powerful, many opportunities there...
    - andy_boot 13y ago
      Many coworking spaces have 'after work talks' or work with local meetup groups so they end up doing this kind of thing. They are loud though - I worked in one once which was full of recruitment people who yakked on the phone all day, not nice.
- pjbrunet 13y ago
BryanB55 13y ago
This is something I've thought about a lot and I think a lot of the loneliness comes in the early stages of being an internet entrepreneur, the times when you don't need to / can't afford to hire full time employees and open an office. For me at least, my ideal working environment would be something like the way 37Signals is setup. When you get to the point where you can hire a handful of employees and open an office but only go to the office when you feel like it. Another option that also sounds fun is to startup a small retail company, maybe related to one of your hobbies, something that at least requires some foot traffic at a physical location. Find someone to run it and go there to manage and check on things whenever you feel the need, or better yet, grab your laptop and work on your internet startup from there. It seems that all my ideas require you to have some extra cash and time on the side though so they're not always possible for a 1 or 2 man bootstrapped startup. If you can get to the point where you've got things running pretty smoothly with your internet company and are making decent money, these options might be something to look forward to.
danneu 13y ago
I'm 25 and live precariously off of the meager income from my own projects. My goal is to grow my income so that I can "finally do what I want", but sometimes I wonder if I'm squandering my life in a delusion. Recently, my safety-net project suffered a catastrophic collapse out of nowhere and now I'm quickly trying to rebuild it. Over time, an increasing amount of my energy is spent warding off the specter of self-doubt.
- jborden13 13y ago
  I read somewhere that it takes 15 years to become a professional at anything. So when I started, I told myself that I had 15 years to get it right, and to not give up before then. Has served me well, as I have improved significantly over time and feel the odds of when I get to the 15th year, I will be pleased with the outcome and with the journey.
- mercer 13y ago
  I'm moving towards doing more of my own projects, but for the past two year's I've been quite happy with contracting three to five days a week. It's harder to work on your own stuff when you're working for someone else in an office for more than three days, but it's a good way to save up some money and it's nice for a change.
Kiro 13y ago
> Few or no colleagues > Working remotely is lonely Both pros for me.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dclara 13y ago
No lonely, no focus. No focus, no productivity. Programmers are a different creature from other people. But enjoy.
bryan_rasmussen 13y ago
Too late, voice of wisdom, too late!
cpursley 13y ago
Interesting. I also graduated with a degree in Real Estate at about the same time as you (bad timing) and have since moved on to the software industry (self-taught).
lowglow 13y ago
We created tribes (http://tribes.techendo.co/ http://tribes.techendo.co/) to basically combat this while expanding your network and resources. If you're in SF, you should join us. If you're not in SF you can take our guidelines (http://tribes.techendo.co/rules http://tribes.techendo.co/rules) and help create a tribe in your area.

99 points by Red_Tarsius 13y ago

jaiball 13y ago

another casualty here.

mumbi 13y ago

does it bug anybody else that the alt text is in the stress level screenshot?

kermal 13y ago

"The Struggle is when you wonder why you started the company in the first place. [...] The Struggle is not failure, but it causes failure. Especially if you are weak. Always if you are weak." So untrue. You are not weak if you quit ! And conversely, you are not strong if you don't quit. Sometimes, you should quit, and it takes courage to do so: when you gave so much to your project that quitting breaks your heart.

31reasons 13y ago
It was kind of funny to read the whole "Struggle" part. My response is, Nobody is forcing you to go through the struggle. Live in Bangladesh for $1/day and you will know Struggle. Whoever wrote it is seriously need to get some perspective.
- mercer 13y ago
  And while the author is at it, he should stop complaining about anything because there is always someone worse off than him!

jborden13 13y ago

Beautiful post. Abstract out the gaming aspect, and throw in a couple of kids, and I would've believed that I had written it. In my experience, it only gets harder once you start reproducing. All that kick ass time you have to decompress (hot Yoga, etc.), is now replaced with home stress (which is >= work stress) - and it only compounds everything. I find that I increasingly crave human interaction (besides screaming children and agro SO), and really appreciate human connection more and more, when it does happen. But sometimes that human interaction comes at a cost of productivity and therein lies the rub. My cutoff for work is supposed to be 11pm (shutdown all devices and decompress for at least 30min befor bed), but eventually things flare up - I'm up until 2am for a few weeks and forget all about my 'cutoff'. A few months later, I realize that I need a cutoff again. Vicious cycle. Sorry, I'm rambling. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that you are not alone - I think it's the price we pay, but it's always good to be smart about our approach.

darklrd 13y ago

Very beautiful put and aptly said. And, yes in the end, it's worth the reward.

regal 13y ago

Am I the only one who spends 16 hours in front of a computer (mostly) working 6 days a week, managing staff exclusively through email and oDesk, and loves it? Maybe it's because I view the entrepreneurship stage as the filling between two sides of the cookie sandwich, with tons of partying, debauchery, and socialization in the years before I got into it, and tons of it on the other side once the damn thing's finally making enough money to hire a real management team to watch the stables for a while, while I go out and take a years-in-the-making vacation to end all vacations... then come back and get to work until I don't feel like working on business anymore. I also don't use Facebook, Twitter, or anything else along those lines... if you want to reach me, you can email me, and I'll respond when I check email once every few days, or if you're one of the very few people who has access to my phone, you can call or text me and we can chat or grab dinner. No cyberstalking or hours lost to staring at social media inanity wondering why I'm not a part of all the pretend-excitement people portray themselves as engaging in for me. Wonder if this vicarious living through people's puffed up social lives on social media isn't a big part of why the author feels so left out.

User8712 13y ago
Same here, I love nearly every minute of it. If I sold out tomorrow, I'd start another project and work the same hours. Here's an idea for a HN developer. Setup a site where entrepreneurs can hangout and chat daily. This next point is going to sound crazy, but only have the site online for 1 hour (or maybe two 1 hour sessions) a day. This way, we're not distracted to check the site on a constant basis, but it's more of a 1 hr daily meeting, where you can jump in, network, chat about your project, what you're working on, technologies, etc. Associate everyone with their related app or business, so you'll see 'Michael Gnade (IndieGameStand.com)', etc.
- gojomo 13y ago
  Can't remember the name, but heard a while back about a system that gathered independent freelancers/entrepreneurs in small groups (3-4?), and set up regular capped-length conference calls (20m?) where by convention each spoke for just a few minutes. It was creating a chance for check-in and follow-through – accountability to peers, even if not collaborators – without the open-ended digressions of other meetups. The person who mentioned it spoke highly of it – so there's definitely something to your suggestion, if the participants and boundaries are set well.

city41 13y ago

People with experience with this, what do you think of coworking spaces? They seem like a great solution to the loneliness and can even yield some nice networking. Any downsides to them?

chrisduesing 13y ago
They are loud. Then again I am a programmer, so headphones can solve the only real downside for me. I don't have to make calls all day. But to more specifically address your offering a coworking space as a solution to meeting other people. It probably comes down to personality, but I am an introvert and find it very difficult to just start talking to someone. So, it ends up a bit like being at a party full of strangers. You are pretty sure there are some cool people around, but have no idea what the first step is for locating them and then breaking the ice. There are sometimes happy hour type events, but people tend to group up with people they already know and give you the 'what do you want' look if you start the slow awkward approach. Again, there are lots of people who are good at this, I am not one of them. To summarize, it can be a good solution or not depending on your personality. My solution is to schedule lunches with my friends and people I have met who were interesting. That lowers the burden of meeting new people at the coworking space, which can then happen a little more organically.
- jotm 13y ago
  What if it was a coworking space that first introduced the members, what they do and what their plans are, etc (as an ice breaker). Being able to gather many entrepreneurial minds in one building is quite powerful, many opportunities there...
  - andy_boot 13y ago
    Many coworking spaces have 'after work talks' or work with local meetup groups so they end up doing this kind of thing. They are loud though - I worked in one once which was full of recruitment people who yakked on the phone all day, not nice.
pjbrunet 13y ago

BryanB55 13y ago

This is something I've thought about a lot and I think a lot of the loneliness comes in the early stages of being an internet entrepreneur, the times when you don't need to / can't afford to hire full time employees and open an office. For me at least, my ideal working environment would be something like the way 37Signals is setup. When you get to the point where you can hire a handful of employees and open an office but only go to the office when you feel like it. Another option that also sounds fun is to startup a small retail company, maybe related to one of your hobbies, something that at least requires some foot traffic at a physical location. Find someone to run it and go there to manage and check on things whenever you feel the need, or better yet, grab your laptop and work on your internet startup from there. It seems that all my ideas require you to have some extra cash and time on the side though so they're not always possible for a 1 or 2 man bootstrapped startup. If you can get to the point where you've got things running pretty smoothly with your internet company and are making decent money, these options might be something to look forward to.

danneu 13y ago

I'm 25 and live precariously off of the meager income from my own projects. My goal is to grow my income so that I can "finally do what I want", but sometimes I wonder if I'm squandering my life in a delusion. Recently, my safety-net project suffered a catastrophic collapse out of nowhere and now I'm quickly trying to rebuild it. Over time, an increasing amount of my energy is spent warding off the specter of self-doubt.

jborden13 13y ago
I read somewhere that it takes 15 years to become a professional at anything. So when I started, I told myself that I had 15 years to get it right, and to not give up before then. Has served me well, as I have improved significantly over time and feel the odds of when I get to the 15th year, I will be pleased with the outcome and with the journey.
mercer 13y ago
I'm moving towards doing more of my own projects, but for the past two year's I've been quite happy with contracting three to five days a week. It's harder to work on your own stuff when you're working for someone else in an office for more than three days, but it's a good way to save up some money and it's nice for a change.

Kiro 13y ago

> Few or no colleagues > Working remotely is lonely Both pros for me.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dclara 13y ago

No lonely, no focus. No focus, no productivity. Programmers are a different creature from other people. But enjoy.

bryan_rasmussen 13y ago

Too late, voice of wisdom, too late!

cpursley 13y ago

Interesting. I also graduated with a degree in Real Estate at about the same time as you (bad timing) and have since moved on to the software industry (self-taught).

lowglow 13y ago

We created tribes (http://tribes.techendo.co/ http://tribes.techendo.co/) to basically combat this while expanding your network and resources. If you're in SF, you should join us. If you're not in SF you can take our guidelines (http://tribes.techendo.co/rules http://tribes.techendo.co/rules) and help create a tribe in your area.