5 ms·

Thanks for the link to scalzi [1] - "Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is". It was a really good read. [1]: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2

by aaren 13y ago

Thanks for the link to scalzi [1] - "Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is". It was a really good read. [1]: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th...

crassus 13y ago
All the liberal white guys growing up to middle class parents in California read that and say "I guess I should feel really guilty for all I've been given in life". All the white guys that grew up in the poor rural South and fought to learn about tech read that and say "fuck off, Scalzi". And then they spend the rest of their lives hearing from the other white guys about how their accomplishments are hollow for the rest of their lives. Asians sit on the sidelines, largely ignored, quietly falsifying the "oppressor/oppressed" narrative[1] and driving social justice warriors crazy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_Un...
- theorique 13y ago
  Asians throw the "white privilege" theory for a loop, because they face the same challenges as other people of color, and yet still manage to succeed admirably. Victim-lovers don't like them for that very reason, because they don't play very good racial victims - they are too busy succeeding.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    Not at all. That one group has privilege doesn't mean no other group can. Here, for example, is a programmer talking about how he was privileged for looking like an Asian guy: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm White privilege by the way, isn't a theory. It's a fact. E.g.: http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 Or, more entertainingly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY
    - jacobtracey 13y ago
      This collectivism grouping of people with 'privilege' is so bogus it's astounding that people follow it so blindly. Have you ever considered the possibility that people can judge other people based on their individual merits, not by the actions/inactions of people with the same colour of their skin or gender? Furthermore, you quote one white paper to prove that white privilege is fact - how does that paper prove anything is factual?
      - wpietri 13y ago
        If a lot of people see something you don't, they could all be deluded. Or you could just be missing something. Also, people aren't going to take you very seriously if you run around accusing them of being blind. Even when you're right. Actually, there's a lot of research that shows that the default condition of humankind is not to judge other people based on their individual merits. And that probably includes you. Try some of these on for size: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ That paper proves that just having a name that people perceive as white gives you a substantial advantage in job searches. That is one small aspect of white privilege. There are a raft of studies like this. That's just one that stuck in my head.
        jacobtracey 13y ago
        I have no doubt that systemic racism still exists, particularly in the United States. Certainly, that paper provides evidence that those with African American sounding names are at a disadvantage to people with white sounding names when applying for jobs. Calling this disparity a 'privilege' and not a 'disadvantage' that needs to be corrected only stands as a reason to vilify one group, rather than lift the other, disadvantaged group up. It's practically become a social faux pas to comment on anything in regards to social equity if you're a 'cigender white male' because of all the 'privilege' that group of people have. Case in point, this entire controversy with PG. The word privilege has become so loaded that it's almost a catch all to dismiss or denigrate people's character irregardless of the quality of the content. It's not that I think anyone is deluded, or blind. The language used has just become so muddled as to be almost worthless.
- aaren 13y ago
  From the [FAQ]: 4.I’m a straight white male and my life isn’t easy! My life sucks! Your “lowest difficulty setting” doesn’t account for that! That’s actually fully accounted for in the entry. Go back and read it again. This one’s a stand-in for all the complaints about the entry that come primarily either from not reading the entry, or not reading what was actually written in the entry in preference to a version of the entry that exists solely in that one person’s head, and which is not the entry I wrote. Please, gentlemen, read what is there, not what you think is there, or what you believe must be there because you know you already disagree with what I have to say, no matter what it is I am saying. [FAQ]: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-setting-follow-up/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-sett...
- wpietri 13y ago
  I'm certainly not saying that anybody's accomplishments are hollow, and I'm not saying anybody should feel guilty. Neither I nor Scalzi feels guilty about having privilege. The question for us is what we do with it.
Crake 13y ago
I'm not a SWM and I think this stupid article has done a lot to damage the cause of equality. It is tactically, morally, and ethically stupid. I wish people would stop linking it, but sjws gonna sjw, I guess. Getting an angry response from disadvantaged people is more entertaining than doing the dull dreary or the high risk scary work of actually helping underprivileged succeed. Ugh.
- wpietri 13y ago
  Could you explain what harm you think this article has done, and which disadvantage people are providing the angry response?

by aaren 13y ago

crassus 13y ago

All the liberal white guys growing up to middle class parents in California read that and say "I guess I should feel really guilty for all I've been given in life". All the white guys that grew up in the poor rural South and fought to learn about tech read that and say "fuck off, Scalzi". And then they spend the rest of their lives hearing from the other white guys about how their accomplishments are hollow for the rest of their lives. Asians sit on the sidelines, largely ignored, quietly falsifying the "oppressor/oppressed" narrative[1] and driving social justice warriors crazy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_Un...

theorique 13y ago
Asians throw the "white privilege" theory for a loop, because they face the same challenges as other people of color, and yet still manage to succeed admirably. Victim-lovers don't like them for that very reason, because they don't play very good racial victims - they are too busy succeeding.
- wpietri 13y ago
  Not at all. That one group has privilege doesn't mean no other group can. Here, for example, is a programmer talking about how he was privileged for looking like an Asian guy: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm White privilege by the way, isn't a theory. It's a fact. E.g.: http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 Or, more entertainingly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY
  - jacobtracey 13y ago
    This collectivism grouping of people with 'privilege' is so bogus it's astounding that people follow it so blindly. Have you ever considered the possibility that people can judge other people based on their individual merits, not by the actions/inactions of people with the same colour of their skin or gender? Furthermore, you quote one white paper to prove that white privilege is fact - how does that paper prove anything is factual?
    - wpietri 13y ago
      If a lot of people see something you don't, they could all be deluded. Or you could just be missing something. Also, people aren't going to take you very seriously if you run around accusing them of being blind. Even when you're right. Actually, there's a lot of research that shows that the default condition of humankind is not to judge other people based on their individual merits. And that probably includes you. Try some of these on for size: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ That paper proves that just having a name that people perceive as white gives you a substantial advantage in job searches. That is one small aspect of white privilege. There are a raft of studies like this. That's just one that stuck in my head.
      - jacobtracey 13y ago
        I have no doubt that systemic racism still exists, particularly in the United States. Certainly, that paper provides evidence that those with African American sounding names are at a disadvantage to people with white sounding names when applying for jobs. Calling this disparity a 'privilege' and not a 'disadvantage' that needs to be corrected only stands as a reason to vilify one group, rather than lift the other, disadvantaged group up. It's practically become a social faux pas to comment on anything in regards to social equity if you're a 'cigender white male' because of all the 'privilege' that group of people have. Case in point, this entire controversy with PG. The word privilege has become so loaded that it's almost a catch all to dismiss or denigrate people's character irregardless of the quality of the content. It's not that I think anyone is deluded, or blind. The language used has just become so muddled as to be almost worthless.
aaren 13y ago
From the [FAQ]: 4.I’m a straight white male and my life isn’t easy! My life sucks! Your “lowest difficulty setting” doesn’t account for that! That’s actually fully accounted for in the entry. Go back and read it again. This one’s a stand-in for all the complaints about the entry that come primarily either from not reading the entry, or not reading what was actually written in the entry in preference to a version of the entry that exists solely in that one person’s head, and which is not the entry I wrote. Please, gentlemen, read what is there, not what you think is there, or what you believe must be there because you know you already disagree with what I have to say, no matter what it is I am saying. [FAQ]: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-setting-follow-up/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-sett...
wpietri 13y ago
I'm certainly not saying that anybody's accomplishments are hollow, and I'm not saying anybody should feel guilty. Neither I nor Scalzi feels guilty about having privilege. The question for us is what we do with it.

Crake 13y ago

I'm not a SWM and I think this stupid article has done a lot to damage the cause of equality. It is tactically, morally, and ethically stupid. I wish people would stop linking it, but sjws gonna sjw, I guess. Getting an angry response from disadvantaged people is more entertaining than doing the dull dreary or the high risk scary work of actually helping underprivileged succeed. Ugh.

wpietri 13y ago
Could you explain what harm you think this article has done, and which disadvantage people are providing the angry response?