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You can only determine which deserves more weight by your ability to change an outcome or your level of devotion to that outcome being changed. Women clearly ha

by dkoston 13y ago

You can only determine which deserves more weight by your ability to change an outcome or your level of devotion to that outcome being changed. Women clearly have a vested interest in reducing negative outcomes for their group, just as furries, latinos, gays, asexuals, etc do for their own groups. If you're arguing that it's silly to place all our emphasis on a single group rather than trying to make society better by not giving preference to any group, that would be a potentially valid argument however, it's one that likely wouldn't survive outside a classroom setting. History has shown us that the banding together of some groups (civil rights movement for blacks, women's suffrage for women) has worked to enact change. I'd assume that a psychological influence towards change may be that it's easy to feel sympathetic to a group when you have a personal connection with one of its members. Having no clear members to connect with (in a world where no groups are given preference) would prevent people who are close minded from feeling sympathetic towards change. That is simply an assumption though. I tend to lean that way because it has been shown that facts don't win arguments(1). As such, I am doubtful that providing evidence to harassers about the ill effects of their harassment or evidence about the potential benefits of them stopping would have any effect on their behavior. In addition, the problem of harassment, bigotry, and prejudice is one that is both complex and large in scale. It seems logical to break this larger problem into smaller batches (i.e. working on the most populous groups that are affected) in order to promote immediate change instead of waiting for a solution to completely solve the problem (which is unlikely to exist). (1) http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts-dont-win-arguments http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts...

yummyfajitas 13y ago
You can only determine which deserves more weight by your ability to change an outcome or your level of devotion to that outcome being changed. Interesting. This sounds a great deal like the corporatist aspects of Fascism - in order to achieve your goals (whatever they are), you choose to ally with powerful subgroups and engage in governance based solely on maintaining the coalition of powerful subgroups. A fairly machiavellian philosophy, and not one that is commonly admitted, but definitely interesting. (To head off any silliness, let me be clear that I'm not calling your views Fascist, you merely seem to express this one aspect of your philosophy very similarly to them. I have no idea whether you share the fascist belief in a strong central government, the rebirth/decadence myth, etc.)
- dkoston 13y ago
  Corporatism was developed by the Greeks and viewed in a positive light when pondered by the likes of Plato. In such a light, the concept is often viewed positively. Later, the concept was also used by some fascist states, especially Mussolini's Italy. In this sense, it was used in a more negative light. As such, corporatism is not necessarily a fascist concept but I can see how you could make that connection. There wasn't any indication from my side that I wish to maintain a coalition of powerful subgroups. However, I'd be naive to argue that any large scale society has existed without a number of subgroups who either share power within the accepted system, or take power from outside its constraints. This is because society is made up of people who have all sorts of positives and negatives but have also adapted to form groups (families, tribes, states, nations). The thought was initially posed due to the limited time and effort that any human being has. If you want to go through the list of groups that experience the most harm and reduce that harm and move onto the next group, you need some way to choose which group to start with. Devotion to that group or perceived ability to change their fate are simple ways to select which cause (not necessarily group) to align yourself with. In no way does that require you to align yourself with only one cause or group or exclude yourself from the same. For example: being devoted to your family doesn't make you not devoted to your country, it simply adds additional complexity to the rules and scope of your devotion to both groups.

by dkoston 13y ago

yummyfajitas 13y ago

You can only determine which deserves more weight by your ability to change an outcome or your level of devotion to that outcome being changed. Interesting. This sounds a great deal like the corporatist aspects of Fascism - in order to achieve your goals (whatever they are), you choose to ally with powerful subgroups and engage in governance based solely on maintaining the coalition of powerful subgroups. A fairly machiavellian philosophy, and not one that is commonly admitted, but definitely interesting. (To head off any silliness, let me be clear that I'm not calling your views Fascist, you merely seem to express this one aspect of your philosophy very similarly to them. I have no idea whether you share the fascist belief in a strong central government, the rebirth/decadence myth, etc.)

dkoston 13y ago
Corporatism was developed by the Greeks and viewed in a positive light when pondered by the likes of Plato. In such a light, the concept is often viewed positively. Later, the concept was also used by some fascist states, especially Mussolini's Italy. In this sense, it was used in a more negative light. As such, corporatism is not necessarily a fascist concept but I can see how you could make that connection. There wasn't any indication from my side that I wish to maintain a coalition of powerful subgroups. However, I'd be naive to argue that any large scale society has existed without a number of subgroups who either share power within the accepted system, or take power from outside its constraints. This is because society is made up of people who have all sorts of positives and negatives but have also adapted to form groups (families, tribes, states, nations). The thought was initially posed due to the limited time and effort that any human being has. If you want to go through the list of groups that experience the most harm and reduce that harm and move onto the next group, you need some way to choose which group to start with. Devotion to that group or perceived ability to change their fate are simple ways to select which cause (not necessarily group) to align yourself with. In no way does that require you to align yourself with only one cause or group or exclude yourself from the same. For example: being devoted to your family doesn't make you not devoted to your country, it simply adds additional complexity to the rules and scope of your devotion to both groups.