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I think this is why PG hits so many top posters (including myself) with rankban and slowban. PG gives us the story we want to believe: that highly intelligent p

I think this is why PG hits so many top posters (including myself) with rankban and slowban. PG gives us the story we want to believe: that highly intelligent people (I'm no PG fan, but the man wrote On Lisp; he's fucking sharp) succeed in the startup world. The problem, under free exchange of information, is that for each of him, there are 49 equivalently smart, articulate people who had more average outcomes. And in the startup world, average == failure. Many people listed in the Top 100 for Hacker News have been put on slowban and rankban, and I bet this is why. The worst thing that can happen for the startup world is for people to see people like me who are also smart and didn't make millions in the VC-funded startup game before 30. Even though my life's pretty good now, that's after I seceded (probably permanently; I doubt I'm fundable with the shit I said) from VC-istan.

pedalpete 13y ago
This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory. I think the thing that you're missing is that success breeds success. PG was able to be successful with YC because there were a few successes from the first batch, which built the reputation. That lead to more applications, which meant more people to choose from. Being smart in the choices is part of it, but there are a LOT of successful businesses that weren't part of YC, and a lot who were part of YC and not successful. Then comes the network effect which further builds on previous successes. A YC start-up needs a hand, PG's network is best able to provide it. The '49 equivelantly smart, articulate people who had more average outcomes' sadly, didn't have the first success, which lead to more. This isn't only a factor with YC. Lots of YC companies have built on the success of just getting into YC. Do one thing really well, and people take notice. They offer you the opportunity to do other things really well, and your reputation grows. It's an exponential effect.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  > I think the thing that you're missing is that success breeds success. Doesn't this strengthen the argument that luck matters? Consider the careers of hollywood actors. They tend to be jump started by the "big break", rather than being a smooth linear promotion. But LA is stuffed to the gills with actors who never got that big break. The entire city is notoriously oversupplied with good looking waitstaff.
  - pedalpete 13y ago
    You're right in many ways. Maybe I was taking the article the wrong way. I'm not suggesting that luck has no role, but I don't think it is lucky break after lucky break. With respect to LA actors, my brother is a director, and he says there is a massive difference between the successful and unsuccessful actors. I thought it was luck, he thinks they work harder than the rest and are better at there craft. Similar to exceptional coders and product managers, how many of those who are successful in those professions would you say are 'lucky'? So are entrepreneurs any different?
ryanx435 13y ago
it is in pgs interest to create a worldview that hard work and dedication are the crucial factors that lead to success and downplay the effect luck has. it allows him to invest in startups very cheaply (less than a nice new car), have the founders work themselves almost to death, then cash in if they sell their company. this is because part of what the founders take as investment is their expectations for future returns. less money now is ok because with their hard work and dedication they will be xillionaires later. put another way, if founders believe that luck plays a large part in their success, then there is less incentive for hard work at such low prices because their expected future return is lower. hopefully I explained this clearly. if not, ask and I shall attempt to clarify.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  You consider it to be a useful lie, because it promotes the correct behaviour. I'm not sure it's necessary. Optimistic bias is well-entrenched in humans.
habitue 13y ago
I googled "slowban" and "rankban" and can only find other comments by you on this or other sites talking about it. I'm just curious how you know these things exist and whether these terms are one's you've come up with yourself for the phenomena, or whether others use those terms.
- simcop2387 13y ago
  Rankban I believe is the way that HN will put highly ranked people down at the bottom of the page for a longer period of time in the comments, to encourage people to read the other comments despite the highly ranked people likely being insightful. After some number of points or time they'll get ranked fairly based on the comment but it's a way to get insightful comments from new people. Slowban i'm not sure, but maybe just rate limiting the comments that they can post?

pedalpete 13y ago

This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory. I think the thing that you're missing is that success breeds success. PG was able to be successful with YC because there were a few successes from the first batch, which built the reputation. That lead to more applications, which meant more people to choose from. Being smart in the choices is part of it, but there are a LOT of successful businesses that weren't part of YC, and a lot who were part of YC and not successful. Then comes the network effect which further builds on previous successes. A YC start-up needs a hand, PG's network is best able to provide it. The '49 equivelantly smart, articulate people who had more average outcomes' sadly, didn't have the first success, which lead to more. This isn't only a factor with YC. Lots of YC companies have built on the success of just getting into YC. Do one thing really well, and people take notice. They offer you the opportunity to do other things really well, and your reputation grows. It's an exponential effect.

jacques_chester 13y ago
> I think the thing that you're missing is that success breeds success. Doesn't this strengthen the argument that luck matters? Consider the careers of hollywood actors. They tend to be jump started by the "big break", rather than being a smooth linear promotion. But LA is stuffed to the gills with actors who never got that big break. The entire city is notoriously oversupplied with good looking waitstaff.
- pedalpete 13y ago
  You're right in many ways. Maybe I was taking the article the wrong way. I'm not suggesting that luck has no role, but I don't think it is lucky break after lucky break. With respect to LA actors, my brother is a director, and he says there is a massive difference between the successful and unsuccessful actors. I thought it was luck, he thinks they work harder than the rest and are better at there craft. Similar to exceptional coders and product managers, how many of those who are successful in those professions would you say are 'lucky'? So are entrepreneurs any different?

ryanx435 13y ago

it is in pgs interest to create a worldview that hard work and dedication are the crucial factors that lead to success and downplay the effect luck has. it allows him to invest in startups very cheaply (less than a nice new car), have the founders work themselves almost to death, then cash in if they sell their company. this is because part of what the founders take as investment is their expectations for future returns. less money now is ok because with their hard work and dedication they will be xillionaires later. put another way, if founders believe that luck plays a large part in their success, then there is less incentive for hard work at such low prices because their expected future return is lower. hopefully I explained this clearly. if not, ask and I shall attempt to clarify.

jacques_chester 13y ago
You consider it to be a useful lie, because it promotes the correct behaviour. I'm not sure it's necessary. Optimistic bias is well-entrenched in humans.

habitue 13y ago

I googled "slowban" and "rankban" and can only find other comments by you on this or other sites talking about it. I'm just curious how you know these things exist and whether these terms are one's you've come up with yourself for the phenomena, or whether others use those terms.

simcop2387 13y ago
Rankban I believe is the way that HN will put highly ranked people down at the bottom of the page for a longer period of time in the comments, to encourage people to read the other comments despite the highly ranked people likely being insightful. After some number of points or time they'll get ranked fairly based on the comment but it's a way to get insightful comments from new people. Slowban i'm not sure, but maybe just rate limiting the comments that they can post?