6 ms·

Tesla Model X Spotted on Public Road in Culver City, California

53 points by kirtijthorat 13y ago

Crito 13y ago
"Of note, the Model X has side mirrors rather than cameras. This is to comply with federal regulations in the US. This change was made awhile back, though some are still unaware of the alteration." It baffles me that anybody would even consider for a moment swapping out side mirrors with cameras. I can move my head around to view different angles though a mirror. Barring the possibility of head-tracking and rather snappy servos, I cannot do that with a camera/screen setup. You may as well try to have a restaurant replace their forks and knives with iPads that display images of forks and knives instead. It'd be flash, but hopelessly worse for its actual purpose (although at least my idea would not actually be dangerous.) (That is not to say that there is not room for improvement: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/06/18/drexel_professor_andrew_hicks_invents_side_view_mirror_with_no_blind_spot.html)* http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/06/18/drexel_pr...
- dougmccune 13y ago
  while true for the driver-side mirror, the ability to move your head to get more/different visibility isn't nearly as true for the passenger side. I can easily imagine a scenario where a camera that covers any blindspot, which is nearer your face, and is potentially augmented with CV object detection. You could also imagine using the large touchscreen display in the center console to show the appropriate camera when using your turn signal. I'd probably opt for a camera rather than a physical mirror if it was good enough.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Cameras could certainly augment mirrors in ways that improve safety, but I do not believe that they can replace them (again, barring some serious headtracking). However Tesla was interested in getting rid of the mirrors to improve the aerodynamics.
    - waterlesscloud 13y ago
      Wouldn't a wide-angle lens on the camera address many of your concerns?
      - Crito 13y ago
        Not particularly, even if you could get the entire range of vision that mirrors give you into a screen, you'd still not get any parallax (either between your two eyes, or between one head position and another.)
        wtetzner 13y ago
        So you'd need to wear 3D glasses :)
  - userbinator 13y ago
    On some tour buses in China, the rear view camera's position is adjustable with a joystick on the dashboard.
- jared314 13y ago
  > It baffles me that anybody would even consider ... While I agree with your point about mirrors being superior, I do not understand your position. Concept cars contain improbable, and even impossible, features as an attempt to explore the possibilities. Those features normally disappear when the model goes into production, because of the many real-world constraints.
  - Crito 13y ago
    I have no problem with concept cars being bonkers. They wanted this for production cars.
    - jared314 13y ago
      There was a press review back in 2012 of the Tesla Model X, by CNet [1], that explicitly stated, at about the 2 minute mark, that the rear-view cameras may or may not make it into production. I may not agree with the design choice, but I see no reason why they shouldn't try it. [1] http://cnettv.cnet.com/tesla-model-x/9742-1_53-50119782.html http://cnettv.cnet.com/tesla-model-x/9742-1_53-50119782.html (2:00)
- Theodores 13y ago
  Remember when mirrors were on the wings, miles down the bonnet, ideally positioned to injure pedestrians and impossible to adjust from inside the car? That is what you need but with iPads bungee-corded onto them, the display showing the camera video.
- teleclimber 13y ago
  BMW's rear view cameras synthesize a top-down view of your car and the pavement around it. Quite remarkable to see in action. http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-e70-forum/38502d1261153524-rear-view-camera-top-view-bmw-x6-kamera-top-view-1400-.jpg http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-e70-forum/38502d12611... This is not suitable for lane changing but I imagine creative use of cameras all around the vehicle and proper placement of LCD displays could make those mirrors look like dated technology. I don't know what Tesla's implementation was but I am sure we can do better than mirrors with blind spots.
  - codex 13y ago
    Nissan has this feature too; Nissan's implementation is a bit better in that they use four cameras.
  - pselbert 13y ago
    Annoyingly this causes me to have to "accept" that I won't rely on the cameras every single time I start the car. Without doing so I can't access the radio, nav, etc. Proximity sensors and cameras can be invaluable when parking though.
    - teleclimber 13y ago
      Yes I saw that in my friend's BMW. Pretty annoying. Imagine what it's going to be like with self-driving cars?
- codex 13y ago
  Cameras offer meaningful range improvements for electric vehicles by cutting aerodynamic drag. I hope they make it to production.
  - codfrantic 13y ago
    How much extra range does this actually end up giving if you take into account that they actually cost range to power the camera(s) and the screen(s) though ? :)
- methodin 13y ago
  Pop them out when you turn on your blinkers or reverse otherwise they are inside the car and the camera is there for general purpose monitoring.
  - teamonkey 13y ago
    Mirror - Signal - Maneuvre You're supposed to check your mirror before you activate the blinkers.
    - methodin 13y ago
      You would but with the camera. The mirror itself is a double measure - also nothing beats turning your head.
- pbreit 13y ago
  I completely disagree. I'm willing to entertain that cameras might even be better. And I would certainly not criticize a company with demonstrable ingenuity for considering something different from what is standard.
- kposehn 13y ago
  In general, I agree. Often designers of cars like to push that as an option, but reliability (cameras/electronics break/fritz) and general utility (yes, you can move your head for a better angle) win out.
mitchellh 13y ago
Ah hah! There is where it went. This Model X has been on display at the Tesla Supercharger station in Hawthorne for a few months now. I was there the other day and wanted to show someone and noticed it was gone. I figured they were just working on it or something. I guess instead it was out for display around other parts of LA.
kirtijthorat 13y ago
It seems to be the only fully operational Tesla Model "X" yet in existence as we don't have any other media source who has spotted or covered this model before. Also, I personally think other car Mfg. need to support as Tesla cannot be the only manufacturer lobbying for side cameras instead of mirrors. The camera with sensors, and a rock solid software will ultimately do a superior job with blind spots than the mirrors.
- philmcc 13y ago
  Edit. I read the article. It's white. I've seen a burgundy one before, so there are at least two.
jhgg 13y ago
I was really hoping to see some Tesla Motors news during CES 2014. But I guess I'll just have to wait for the Tesla press conference at NAIAS on Jan 16.
base698 13y ago
I am kind of surprised they have falcon doors. Where would your surfboards or skis go?
- grecy 13y ago
  I think that's been a common complaint/question, and IIRC, Elon said they're going to have some kind of rack option

53 points by kirtijthorat 13y ago

Crito 13y ago

"Of note, the Model X has side mirrors rather than cameras. This is to comply with federal regulations in the US. This change was made awhile back, though some are still unaware of the alteration." It baffles me that anybody would even consider for a moment swapping out side mirrors with cameras. I can move my head around to view different angles though a mirror. Barring the possibility of head-tracking and rather snappy servos, I cannot do that with a camera/screen setup. You may as well try to have a restaurant replace their forks and knives with iPads that display images of forks and knives instead. It'd be flash, but hopelessly worse for its actual purpose (although at least my idea would not actually be dangerous.) (That is not to say that there is not room for improvement: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/06/18/drexel_professor_andrew_hicks_invents_side_view_mirror_with_no_blind_spot.html)* http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/06/18/drexel_pr...

dougmccune 13y ago
while true for the driver-side mirror, the ability to move your head to get more/different visibility isn't nearly as true for the passenger side. I can easily imagine a scenario where a camera that covers any blindspot, which is nearer your face, and is potentially augmented with CV object detection. You could also imagine using the large touchscreen display in the center console to show the appropriate camera when using your turn signal. I'd probably opt for a camera rather than a physical mirror if it was good enough.
- Crito 13y ago
  Cameras could certainly augment mirrors in ways that improve safety, but I do not believe that they can replace them (again, barring some serious headtracking). However Tesla was interested in getting rid of the mirrors to improve the aerodynamics.
  - waterlesscloud 13y ago
    Wouldn't a wide-angle lens on the camera address many of your concerns?
    - Crito 13y ago
      Not particularly, even if you could get the entire range of vision that mirrors give you into a screen, you'd still not get any parallax (either between your two eyes, or between one head position and another.)
      - wtetzner 13y ago
        So you'd need to wear 3D glasses :)
- userbinator 13y ago
  On some tour buses in China, the rear view camera's position is adjustable with a joystick on the dashboard.
jared314 13y ago
> It baffles me that anybody would even consider ... While I agree with your point about mirrors being superior, I do not understand your position. Concept cars contain improbable, and even impossible, features as an attempt to explore the possibilities. Those features normally disappear when the model goes into production, because of the many real-world constraints.
- Crito 13y ago
  I have no problem with concept cars being bonkers. They wanted this for production cars.
  - jared314 13y ago
    There was a press review back in 2012 of the Tesla Model X, by CNet [1], that explicitly stated, at about the 2 minute mark, that the rear-view cameras may or may not make it into production. I may not agree with the design choice, but I see no reason why they shouldn't try it. [1] http://cnettv.cnet.com/tesla-model-x/9742-1_53-50119782.html http://cnettv.cnet.com/tesla-model-x/9742-1_53-50119782.html (2:00)
Theodores 13y ago
Remember when mirrors were on the wings, miles down the bonnet, ideally positioned to injure pedestrians and impossible to adjust from inside the car? That is what you need but with iPads bungee-corded onto them, the display showing the camera video.
teleclimber 13y ago
BMW's rear view cameras synthesize a top-down view of your car and the pavement around it. Quite remarkable to see in action. http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-e70-forum/38502d1261153524-rear-view-camera-top-view-bmw-x6-kamera-top-view-1400-.jpg http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-e70-forum/38502d12611... This is not suitable for lane changing but I imagine creative use of cameras all around the vehicle and proper placement of LCD displays could make those mirrors look like dated technology. I don't know what Tesla's implementation was but I am sure we can do better than mirrors with blind spots.
- codex 13y ago
  Nissan has this feature too; Nissan's implementation is a bit better in that they use four cameras.
- pselbert 13y ago
  Annoyingly this causes me to have to "accept" that I won't rely on the cameras every single time I start the car. Without doing so I can't access the radio, nav, etc. Proximity sensors and cameras can be invaluable when parking though.
  - teleclimber 13y ago
    Yes I saw that in my friend's BMW. Pretty annoying. Imagine what it's going to be like with self-driving cars?
codex 13y ago
Cameras offer meaningful range improvements for electric vehicles by cutting aerodynamic drag. I hope they make it to production.
- codfrantic 13y ago
  How much extra range does this actually end up giving if you take into account that they actually cost range to power the camera(s) and the screen(s) though ? :)
methodin 13y ago
Pop them out when you turn on your blinkers or reverse otherwise they are inside the car and the camera is there for general purpose monitoring.
- teamonkey 13y ago
  Mirror - Signal - Maneuvre You're supposed to check your mirror before you activate the blinkers.
  - methodin 13y ago
    You would but with the camera. The mirror itself is a double measure - also nothing beats turning your head.
pbreit 13y ago
I completely disagree. I'm willing to entertain that cameras might even be better. And I would certainly not criticize a company with demonstrable ingenuity for considering something different from what is standard.
kposehn 13y ago
In general, I agree. Often designers of cars like to push that as an option, but reliability (cameras/electronics break/fritz) and general utility (yes, you can move your head for a better angle) win out.

mitchellh 13y ago

Ah hah! There is where it went. This Model X has been on display at the Tesla Supercharger station in Hawthorne for a few months now. I was there the other day and wanted to show someone and noticed it was gone. I figured they were just working on it or something. I guess instead it was out for display around other parts of LA.

kirtijthorat 13y ago

It seems to be the only fully operational Tesla Model "X" yet in existence as we don't have any other media source who has spotted or covered this model before. Also, I personally think other car Mfg. need to support as Tesla cannot be the only manufacturer lobbying for side cameras instead of mirrors. The camera with sensors, and a rock solid software will ultimately do a superior job with blind spots than the mirrors.

philmcc 13y ago
Edit. I read the article. It's white. I've seen a burgundy one before, so there are at least two.

jhgg 13y ago

I was really hoping to see some Tesla Motors news during CES 2014. But I guess I'll just have to wait for the Tesla press conference at NAIAS on Jan 16.

base698 13y ago

I am kind of surprised they have falcon doors. Where would your surfboards or skis go?

grecy 13y ago
I think that's been a common complaint/question, and IIRC, Elon said they're going to have some kind of rack option