7 ms·

I just bought a watch using their bitcoin checkout. Since I was already logged in to Coinbase it a single screen to approve the payment. Then back to a page say

by pat2man 13y ago

I just bought a watch using their bitcoin checkout. Since I was already logged in to Coinbase it a single screen to approve the payment. Then back to a page saying my order was complete. Couldn't be easier. This is a win for bitcoin but its a huge win for Coinbase. Their payment flow works well and I am sure Overstock accepting it will make it an easier sell for other merchants.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
Does Overstock.com have to wait at all for the transaction to be verified by the hashing network? Or do they consider it immediately verified?
- Sambdala 13y ago
  For a transaction that either isn't shipped immediately (any retailer of physical goods) or that you can rescind (digital item with DRM), it's perfectly safe to accept a transaction that has been propagated to the network but that hasn't been 'confirmed' yet. However, you wouldn't want to, for example, run a gambling site that accepts and pays out bets immediately after they show up as 'unconfirmed' because you wouldn't have recourse if they managed to double spend.
- fsckin 13y ago
  I would think that most merchants who asynchronously fulfill will assume the transaction was successful, then have a callback to validate before shipment and handle failure scenarios.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Completely agree. Was just curious if it showed up in the UX at all.
- dangrossman 13y ago
  There's no actual bitcoin transaction going on that needs to be verified. When he purchased his watch, Coinbase decremented his balance in its database, and incremented Overstock's balance in the same database. No currency (crypto- or fiat) is involved until someone wants to make a deposit or a withdrawal.
  - Sambdala 13y ago
    For this customer specifically, yes. However, anyone that doesn't use a Coinbase account will be sending actual Bitcoin.
    - hanley 13y ago
      No one will be sending Bitcoins to Overstock.com. All of the Bitcoin payments will be processed through Coinbase.
      - Sambdala 13y ago
        That's the half of the transaction the grandparent comment didn't talk about. He was talking about the fact the customer in question paid using his Coinbase account so no crypto currency was technically moved as a result of that transaction. ...Not that I think it's a bad thing if a bunch of Bitcoin transactions (especially microtransactions) go off the blockchain, I just wanted to point out that off-blockchain transactions weren't inherent to accepting Bitcoin through Coinbase.
  - BlackDeath3 13y ago
    So... sort of like a bank?
    - dangrossman 13y ago
      Coinbase is the PayPal of Bitcoin. For Aaron: Aside from the 53 money transmission agent licenses both are required to hold, but only PayPal actually has.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Considering they aren't charging a 20% transaction fee, I like them better already.
    - clarkm 13y ago
      Yes, just like a bank. Is that a bad thing? Having a Bitcoin bank as a middleman is probably the best model for the majority of payments. But Bitcoin's appeal lies in its flexibility. Bitcoin is just a protocol: payments can go through a bank, but they don't have to.
- ddrager 13y ago
  I used the Bitcoin client on my phone, after the transaction went through I clicked "Confirm transaction" and it has already accepted it. I'm guessing with smaller transactions they just assume it went through, otherwise they don't ship it within the hour you get the order, so they have some protection against doublespends.
  - natrius 13y ago
    I'm guessing that Coinbase monitors the Bitcoin network to detect double spends. A malicious double spender has to broadcast the second transaction very soon after the first. If you're processing Bitcoin transactions, you can just look for a second one. I think the chances of a second transaction succeeding if it's issued 30 seconds or more after the first are pretty low. You can't spend Bitcoin without the public knowing, and that goes for double spending as well.
selectout 13y ago
I purchased off of cheapair.com using bitcoin yesterday and they use CoinBase as well for the merchant account. Extremely beautiful and seamless way to purchase, although I was a bit worried that it was actually just 1 button click to pay. I wasn't aware it was coinbase at first (I didn't read anything so partially my fault), but clicking the button made the payment and there was no verification. I would expect this to be a 2 step process. (I may have remembered this wrong, but I thought it was only 1 click to purchase)
nhaehnle 13y ago
Here's a potential scenario as some food for thought: Apparently, the process was so simple for you because both you (the buyer) and Overstock (the seller) operate via Coinbase. Clearly, the process would have been less smooth if you had had to use your own wallet. Now suppose that for this reason, Coinbase (as a placeholder for any service like it) manages to establish itself as the go-to payment provider via BTC. Then, one day, they decide that since they always have to convert back to USD for the merchant, maybe it would be interesting to allow their customers to just keep a USD balance with them. It reduces their exchange rate risk, and they could pass some of the savings on to you, making this a tempting offer. Suddenly, BTC is not in the loop any more, though in the end all parties would still be better off (lower fees than in the current credit card system). Such scenarios are why I'm doubtful that BTC will "take over the world" in the sense that many proponents think. I doubt it will become a predominant means of payment in any industrial nation, and there won't be a Bitcoin-standard (analogous to a gold standard) either. Let me explicitly clarify: That does not mean that I believe BTC's value will necessarily drop to zero within the next 100 years. It might, but it might not.
- jff 13y ago
  That's why I always have to laugh when I hear about such-and-such a company "now accepting bitcoin!". They don't get bitcoin, they get USD, so they don't care. Want to buy something from Overstock? Take your USD, buy some bitcoin, put it into your Coinbase account, Coinbase sends USD to Overstock. It's like buying an Amazon giftcard for yourself--just an extraneous step between your original USD and the USD that go to the merchant's account.
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    Astute observers will note that this is very similar to the credit card situation: Overstock does not accept USD, they accept Visa. (and MasterCard. etc.) If I go to Europe and buy something with my Visa debit card, my account is denominated in USD, but they do some forex and the merchant gets Euro. If I go to Overstock and buy something with my Coinbase wallte, my account is denominated in BTC, but they do some trading and the merchant gets USD.

by pat2man 13y ago

toomuchtodo 13y ago

Does Overstock.com have to wait at all for the transaction to be verified by the hashing network? Or do they consider it immediately verified?

Sambdala 13y ago
For a transaction that either isn't shipped immediately (any retailer of physical goods) or that you can rescind (digital item with DRM), it's perfectly safe to accept a transaction that has been propagated to the network but that hasn't been 'confirmed' yet. However, you wouldn't want to, for example, run a gambling site that accepts and pays out bets immediately after they show up as 'unconfirmed' because you wouldn't have recourse if they managed to double spend.
fsckin 13y ago
I would think that most merchants who asynchronously fulfill will assume the transaction was successful, then have a callback to validate before shipment and handle failure scenarios.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Completely agree. Was just curious if it showed up in the UX at all.
dangrossman 13y ago
There's no actual bitcoin transaction going on that needs to be verified. When he purchased his watch, Coinbase decremented his balance in its database, and incremented Overstock's balance in the same database. No currency (crypto- or fiat) is involved until someone wants to make a deposit or a withdrawal.
- Sambdala 13y ago
  For this customer specifically, yes. However, anyone that doesn't use a Coinbase account will be sending actual Bitcoin.
  - hanley 13y ago
    No one will be sending Bitcoins to Overstock.com. All of the Bitcoin payments will be processed through Coinbase.
    - Sambdala 13y ago
      That's the half of the transaction the grandparent comment didn't talk about. He was talking about the fact the customer in question paid using his Coinbase account so no crypto currency was technically moved as a result of that transaction. ...Not that I think it's a bad thing if a bunch of Bitcoin transactions (especially microtransactions) go off the blockchain, I just wanted to point out that off-blockchain transactions weren't inherent to accepting Bitcoin through Coinbase.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  So... sort of like a bank?
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    Coinbase is the PayPal of Bitcoin. For Aaron: Aside from the 53 money transmission agent licenses both are required to hold, but only PayPal actually has.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Considering they aren't charging a 20% transaction fee, I like them better already.
  - clarkm 13y ago
    Yes, just like a bank. Is that a bad thing? Having a Bitcoin bank as a middleman is probably the best model for the majority of payments. But Bitcoin's appeal lies in its flexibility. Bitcoin is just a protocol: payments can go through a bank, but they don't have to.
ddrager 13y ago
I used the Bitcoin client on my phone, after the transaction went through I clicked "Confirm transaction" and it has already accepted it. I'm guessing with smaller transactions they just assume it went through, otherwise they don't ship it within the hour you get the order, so they have some protection against doublespends.
- natrius 13y ago
  I'm guessing that Coinbase monitors the Bitcoin network to detect double spends. A malicious double spender has to broadcast the second transaction very soon after the first. If you're processing Bitcoin transactions, you can just look for a second one. I think the chances of a second transaction succeeding if it's issued 30 seconds or more after the first are pretty low. You can't spend Bitcoin without the public knowing, and that goes for double spending as well.

selectout 13y ago

I purchased off of cheapair.com using bitcoin yesterday and they use CoinBase as well for the merchant account. Extremely beautiful and seamless way to purchase, although I was a bit worried that it was actually just 1 button click to pay. I wasn't aware it was coinbase at first (I didn't read anything so partially my fault), but clicking the button made the payment and there was no verification. I would expect this to be a 2 step process. (I may have remembered this wrong, but I thought it was only 1 click to purchase)

nhaehnle 13y ago

Here's a potential scenario as some food for thought: Apparently, the process was so simple for you because both you (the buyer) and Overstock (the seller) operate via Coinbase. Clearly, the process would have been less smooth if you had had to use your own wallet. Now suppose that for this reason, Coinbase (as a placeholder for any service like it) manages to establish itself as the go-to payment provider via BTC. Then, one day, they decide that since they always have to convert back to USD for the merchant, maybe it would be interesting to allow their customers to just keep a USD balance with them. It reduces their exchange rate risk, and they could pass some of the savings on to you, making this a tempting offer. Suddenly, BTC is not in the loop any more, though in the end all parties would still be better off (lower fees than in the current credit card system). Such scenarios are why I'm doubtful that BTC will "take over the world" in the sense that many proponents think. I doubt it will become a predominant means of payment in any industrial nation, and there won't be a Bitcoin-standard (analogous to a gold standard) either. Let me explicitly clarify: That does not mean that I believe BTC's value will necessarily drop to zero within the next 100 years. It might, but it might not.

jff 13y ago
That's why I always have to laugh when I hear about such-and-such a company "now accepting bitcoin!". They don't get bitcoin, they get USD, so they don't care. Want to buy something from Overstock? Take your USD, buy some bitcoin, put it into your Coinbase account, Coinbase sends USD to Overstock. It's like buying an Amazon giftcard for yourself--just an extraneous step between your original USD and the USD that go to the merchant's account.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  Astute observers will note that this is very similar to the credit card situation: Overstock does not accept USD, they accept Visa. (and MasterCard. etc.) If I go to Europe and buy something with my Visa debit card, my account is denominated in USD, but they do some forex and the merchant gets Euro. If I go to Overstock and buy something with my Coinbase wallte, my account is denominated in BTC, but they do some trading and the merchant gets USD.