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The old model of education is a cathedral, and DIY is the bazaar, and each approach has its weaknesses. MOOC is about as silly as "horseless carriage". The old

The old model of education is a cathedral, and DIY is the bazaar, and each approach has its weaknesses. MOOC is about as silly as "horseless carriage". The old model of education similar to a mathematical proof, with technical lemmas built up progressively until there is a macroscopically interesting result. That has a lot of value. Linear algebra is useful in so many fields, and learning it when you have the time, because you have to, gets it out of the way so you can progress to the fields you actually care about (machine learning, signal processing, physical sciences). I think the new model will be graph-based and open like Wikipedia, but it will have to be aggressively curated for correctness, quality, and coherence. In 10 years, one should be able to take a query like "I want to be employable as a data scientist in 3 years" and turn that into a spanning tree of the relevant subgraph. There'll also be a need for an offline/online hybrid approach like Meetup.com and dating sites-- some interaction offline, some in person-- and that part of it won't fulfill the dream of squashing geographic inequality. Perhaps education will be the first killer app for true "Metaverse" technology (but it won't be the last or biggest).

mrfusion 13y ago
I think the motivation component also needs to be figured out. There's a huge amount of motivation in keeping up with a real world course, not falling behind your peers, and getting your money's worth. MOOC's can't really provide that. I've toyed with doing a startup in this regard. Perhaps something like gympact but targetted at MOOC's. I.e., you pledge a certain amount of money that you'll finish a course and lose it if you don't. Even better if you pledge with a group of people and the whole group loses their money unless the whole group finishes. That way you could harness some major peer pressure.
- waterlesscloud 13y ago
  The part of this discussion that gets swept aside in all the high-minded posturing about education is that most people see coursework as a chore, as something they have to do to get the piece of paper they want. As such, the unspoken "secret" about college courses is that most people do the least they feel they have to do. The majority of students are simply marking time. That's deadly in a MOOC because, well, there's no consequence to failing. The least you have to do is... nothing. Combine that with the fact that there's no tangible reward in the way that there is with a degree from a college and you get a lot of people doing nothing. People, as a group, really aren't interested in learning any more than the bare minimum they need to get what they want. That's what MOOCs are really up against. As long as there's not honest discussion about that, MOOCs are going to have a hard time of it. High-minded idealistic the-people-want-to-learn approaches ignore reality.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    My reply, which had to wait because of childish moderation ("submitting too fast"): https://gist.github.com/michaelochurch/8339582 https://gist.github.com/michaelochurch/8339582
    - mrfusion 13y ago
      That sounds true. I'm sorry you had to post elsewhere :-( Any feedback on my startup idea? Or do you think there might be better ways to fix MOOC's?
  - avenger123 13y ago
    You have described the root of the problem. I would imagine most people doing these courses are looking to either improve their work or get into new work. If all the major companies started to somehow make these MOOC courses similar to requiring a degree, the completion rate would likely skyrocket overnight. If there was a way for a company to say "if you have done these MOOC courses we will give you preferential treatment in your job application", it may make a big difference. I also think the approach that Udacity is now taking could be very effective. Instead of going on offsite training for a week, employees can be rewarded for taking and completing a MOOC course over the span of 6-9 months.
whiskeyfoxtrot 13y ago
I've had the pleasure of co-organizing a lunchtime Meetup at my work for folks taking Andrew Ng's most recent Machine Learning class on Coursera. Having taken a few MMOC's over the past couple of years, the addition of a Meetup was, for me at least, a key motivator to keep me involved in the class. Based on others in the group, I think they feel the same.
saraid216 13y ago
> In 10 years, one should be able to take a query like "I want to be employable as a data scientist in 3 years" and turn that into a spanning tree of the relevant subgraph. You should also be able to invert that, by saying, "I've found all these subjects interesting; what might I be employable as?" This seems like the kind of thing a recruiting company ought to start working on now. You'd be able to spot likely recruits really early on, brick-and-mortar or MOOC or whatever.

mrfusion 13y ago

I think the motivation component also needs to be figured out. There's a huge amount of motivation in keeping up with a real world course, not falling behind your peers, and getting your money's worth. MOOC's can't really provide that. I've toyed with doing a startup in this regard. Perhaps something like gympact but targetted at MOOC's. I.e., you pledge a certain amount of money that you'll finish a course and lose it if you don't. Even better if you pledge with a group of people and the whole group loses their money unless the whole group finishes. That way you could harness some major peer pressure.

waterlesscloud 13y ago
The part of this discussion that gets swept aside in all the high-minded posturing about education is that most people see coursework as a chore, as something they have to do to get the piece of paper they want. As such, the unspoken "secret" about college courses is that most people do the least they feel they have to do. The majority of students are simply marking time. That's deadly in a MOOC because, well, there's no consequence to failing. The least you have to do is... nothing. Combine that with the fact that there's no tangible reward in the way that there is with a degree from a college and you get a lot of people doing nothing. People, as a group, really aren't interested in learning any more than the bare minimum they need to get what they want. That's what MOOCs are really up against. As long as there's not honest discussion about that, MOOCs are going to have a hard time of it. High-minded idealistic the-people-want-to-learn approaches ignore reality.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  My reply, which had to wait because of childish moderation ("submitting too fast"): https://gist.github.com/michaelochurch/8339582 https://gist.github.com/michaelochurch/8339582
  - mrfusion 13y ago
    That sounds true. I'm sorry you had to post elsewhere :-( Any feedback on my startup idea? Or do you think there might be better ways to fix MOOC's?
- avenger123 13y ago
  You have described the root of the problem. I would imagine most people doing these courses are looking to either improve their work or get into new work. If all the major companies started to somehow make these MOOC courses similar to requiring a degree, the completion rate would likely skyrocket overnight. If there was a way for a company to say "if you have done these MOOC courses we will give you preferential treatment in your job application", it may make a big difference. I also think the approach that Udacity is now taking could be very effective. Instead of going on offsite training for a week, employees can be rewarded for taking and completing a MOOC course over the span of 6-9 months.

whiskeyfoxtrot 13y ago

I've had the pleasure of co-organizing a lunchtime Meetup at my work for folks taking Andrew Ng's most recent Machine Learning class on Coursera. Having taken a few MMOC's over the past couple of years, the addition of a Meetup was, for me at least, a key motivator to keep me involved in the class. Based on others in the group, I think they feel the same.

saraid216 13y ago

> In 10 years, one should be able to take a query like "I want to be employable as a data scientist in 3 years" and turn that into a spanning tree of the relevant subgraph. You should also be able to invert that, by saying, "I've found all these subjects interesting; what might I be employable as?" This seems like the kind of thing a recruiting company ought to start working on now. You'd be able to spot likely recruits really early on, brick-and-mortar or MOOC or whatever.