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> It seems to me that not believing you is the right thing to do. I'm sorry, but you have your science backwards. You don't dismiss evidence because it doesn't

> It seems to me that not believing you is the right thing to do. I'm sorry, but you have your science backwards. You don't dismiss evidence because it doesn't fit your current hypothesis. Most significantly though, you grossly misunderstand statistics/surveys if you think it's possible to extract definitive physiological truths out of a subjective "how do you feel about remembering X?" survey. For what it's worth anecdotally, I also can access memories from when I was 3-4 years old, and I can easily prove they're not fabricated memories because the memories in particular were not retold, and in some cases took some effort to actually confirm when I was the only one remembering them (even parents forgot). Usually the memories are misc. trivia -- e.g. the design of the wallpaper of a house I only lived in until I was 4, a certain set of kids' cups I only used until I was 6, etc. There is no way these are false memories, because nobody told such things to me. I also remember some of my thoughts as a very young child, which is interesting, because they're very different from adult thoughts (though obviously I can't really "confirm" this in the same way I can physical memories). Anyone saying childhood amnesia occurs completely is completely misguided. Of course, I have "childhood amnesia" like everyone else in the sense that most of those memories I haven't accessed in a long time, and can't recall them instantly at will. But they're still there, and I can access them with meditation if I want.

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tiatia 13y ago
I remember when I learned to walk (man, the chairs were as tall as me). I know the exact place were it happened. Actually, I could not walk but "run" a few steps before somebody had to grab me and prevent me from falling. I also might remember having laid in a children's push chair but I am not 100% sure about this memory.
- timdiggerm 13y ago
  Great, but how do you know that you didn't re-create that memory based on your parents telling you about it?
  - mzs 13y ago
    Here is a case, I left Poland when I was four. Went back in my twenties and met an old neighbor kid now all grown-up. There I saw a wall and I told him how I remembered I had eaten a bug there and grossed-out a bunch of the kids. He was astonished that I remembered it, he remembered it too cause he was in grade school at the time and it was really gross to him what I had done. I asked my family later and they had no idea I had done that.
    - mercer 13y ago
      Is there a possibility that any of the people that observed you doing this told you about it at a later time?
      - mzs 13y ago
        It is very unlikely since I left the country. Possibly some family heard from a kid or parent of kid, but they would would have mentioned it to me when I was still four before I left. Maybe my parents heard, but neither of my parents knew about this when I asked later. So they might have forgotten and if they had said anything it would have been when I was still young. Also I did meet that same kid when I was in 5th grade. But by that age I think one of us would have remembered it that we had talked about it when I was in fifth grade that time we met in our twenties when I brought it up. My hunch is that there can be some strong memories remembered from youth, some people may have more, some less, even none.
pgsandstrom 13y ago
> I'm sorry, but you have your science backwards. You don't dismiss evidence because it doesn't fit your current hypothesis. It is you who are misunderstanding either science, or what Tedks is saying. Mililanis story is not evidence, it is an anecdote. Based on our understanding of the human mind, it is simply more likely that his/hers story is a false memory rather than a true memory from a young age. Obviously it could be a true memory, but it is unlikely. On the topic of false memories: I actually have several memories from a young age that directly contradicts with each other. I remember longing for a specific Nintendo game. I also remember getting the game as a christmas gift, looking at the box thinking "this looks like crap, why did they buy this?".
- Shorel 13y ago
  Well may be the TV ad for the game was much better than the box art of the game. It can happen. I see no contradiction there.
onetwofiveten 13y ago
tedks didn't talk about definitive truths. The word used was "likely". Very few adults have memories from before the age of 2 and a half, and most who report memories cannot distinguish between personal memories and knowledge of the event given after the fact. If mililani has memories from before 2 and a half, then they are quite likely to be false memories. The evidence here isn't being dismissed, it's just being evaluated. In your case, having memories from 3-4 years is entirely possible. However, your own subjective experience isn't definitive proof either. How can you prove that "nobody told such things" to you?
majkinetor 13y ago
The discussion is stupid, because nothing is ever 100%. The original page clearly mentions percentages. So while 90% of people do not remember anything before 3 or so, there are those who can, and it seems its not that hard to find them.

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tiatia 13y ago

I remember when I learned to walk (man, the chairs were as tall as me). I know the exact place were it happened. Actually, I could not walk but "run" a few steps before somebody had to grab me and prevent me from falling. I also might remember having laid in a children's push chair but I am not 100% sure about this memory.

timdiggerm 13y ago
Great, but how do you know that you didn't re-create that memory based on your parents telling you about it?
- mzs 13y ago
  Here is a case, I left Poland when I was four. Went back in my twenties and met an old neighbor kid now all grown-up. There I saw a wall and I told him how I remembered I had eaten a bug there and grossed-out a bunch of the kids. He was astonished that I remembered it, he remembered it too cause he was in grade school at the time and it was really gross to him what I had done. I asked my family later and they had no idea I had done that.
  - mercer 13y ago
    Is there a possibility that any of the people that observed you doing this told you about it at a later time?
    - mzs 13y ago
      It is very unlikely since I left the country. Possibly some family heard from a kid or parent of kid, but they would would have mentioned it to me when I was still four before I left. Maybe my parents heard, but neither of my parents knew about this when I asked later. So they might have forgotten and if they had said anything it would have been when I was still young. Also I did meet that same kid when I was in 5th grade. But by that age I think one of us would have remembered it that we had talked about it when I was in fifth grade that time we met in our twenties when I brought it up. My hunch is that there can be some strong memories remembered from youth, some people may have more, some less, even none.

pgsandstrom 13y ago

> I'm sorry, but you have your science backwards. You don't dismiss evidence because it doesn't fit your current hypothesis. It is you who are misunderstanding either science, or what Tedks is saying. Mililanis story is not evidence, it is an anecdote. Based on our understanding of the human mind, it is simply more likely that his/hers story is a false memory rather than a true memory from a young age. Obviously it could be a true memory, but it is unlikely. On the topic of false memories: I actually have several memories from a young age that directly contradicts with each other. I remember longing for a specific Nintendo game. I also remember getting the game as a christmas gift, looking at the box thinking "this looks like crap, why did they buy this?".

Shorel 13y ago
Well may be the TV ad for the game was much better than the box art of the game. It can happen. I see no contradiction there.

onetwofiveten 13y ago

tedks didn't talk about definitive truths. The word used was "likely". Very few adults have memories from before the age of 2 and a half, and most who report memories cannot distinguish between personal memories and knowledge of the event given after the fact. If mililani has memories from before 2 and a half, then they are quite likely to be false memories. The evidence here isn't being dismissed, it's just being evaluated. In your case, having memories from 3-4 years is entirely possible. However, your own subjective experience isn't definitive proof either. How can you prove that "nobody told such things" to you?

majkinetor 13y ago

The discussion is stupid, because nothing is ever 100%. The original page clearly mentions percentages. So while 90% of people do not remember anything before 3 or so, there are those who can, and it seems its not that hard to find them.