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there's this undercurrent of hatred for baller/rap/black (so-called "douchebag") culture which seems to aggravate every single PR problem they have. Douchebag

there's this undercurrent of hatred for baller/rap/black (so-called "douchebag") culture which seems to aggravate every single PR problem they have. Douchebag culture and black culture are radically different. First, there are several different black cultures: everything from upper-middle-class to working-class to poor African-American, plus several Afro-Caribbean cultures, plus a huge number of distinct African cultures. Douchebag culture (which is in vogue among the VC darlings, especially in the elite networks OP described) is a historically white phenomenon: popped collars, brogramming, saying shit like YOLO and WHPH ("work hard play hard"). Douchebag culture is a dominant culture in the Valley (not the only one) and we need outlets like Valleywag to remind everyone how ridiculous it is.

lhnz 13y ago
>> Douchebag culture and black culture are radically different. You're talking about a bunch of white guys creating a rap site and telling me that they're not trying to channel black culture. If the stylings and bravado at RapGenius weren't related to culture from rap/hip-hop I'd be very surprised. In the past in the UK we used to have "Wigger" culture [0] and it actually was fairly similar... I don't think this anger has anything to do with being a douchebag. I've met people that dressed and spoke weirdly that have been perfectly nice people. I think that people recognise the style as douchebag because it's uncomfortable for them to see white people "acting black". [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger
- Ryanmf 13y ago
  Stop. >> You're talking about a bunch of white guys creating a rap site and telling me that they're not trying to channel black culture. Oh, they're trying alright. Said douchebags are roughly as representative of black culture as Ali G was. Though it would seem they're not in on the joke. There is no "channelling" going on. You can be a person of any color who appreciates and celebrates hip hop culture without reducing its participants to cardboard cut-outs.
  - lhnz 13y ago
    There's no joke here. And little harm being done. RapGenius is a well loved by its market. If you believe that how people dress and speak defines their worthiness as a human being (and it seems you do) then go along your own way. I do not.
    - Ryanmf 13y ago
      This isn't complicated. There's a difference between identity and affectation. When your affectation conflates "acting black" (as if that's even a thing one can do) with "acting moronic", your affectation is intrinsically racist. And when you willfully adopt a racist affectation because despite being a Yale/Stanford Law grad you're apparently incapable of understanding how fucking offensive that is, I am not obligated to show you one single iota of respect. These guys don't represent anyone but themselves, and—of late—they're doing a poor job of it. (btw — I think Rap Genius is a great product. I hope its founders don't ruin it.)
      - lhnz 13y ago
        >> This isn't complicated. Stop insinuating that I don't understand you. I understand you, I just disagree with you. >> There's a difference between identity and affectation. When your affectation conflates "acting black" (as if that's even a thing one can do) with "acting moronic", your affectation is intrinsically racist. Do you think that they believe they are acting moronically? Or is this perception of moronic behaviour your own? If it's the latter - which I expect it is - then you are projecting racism onto them. It's not something which is intrinsic - it requires the perceiver to have your value system. (My perception is that they are not acting like morons. And that it's all just good fun.) The problem I have with this whole argument is that even if a guy had a popped collar, was wearing dark sunglasses inside and kept saying everything was "baller", I'd prefer him infinitely over the guy that looked at him and declared him to be "moronic" and a "douchebag" because of his style. One is harmless but the other is something which to me signifies a close-minded asshole.
        Ryanmf 13y ago
JonnieCache 13y ago
>shit like YOLO and WHPH ("work hard play hard") People are saying that second one out loud? How? My mental image of what SV is like gets sillier by the day. I should draw a comic or something. We should start the same thing in the UK. I'm gonna put "RIP Esco" at the end of every presentation from now on. Showerman mode.
pmarca 13y ago
"Douchebag culture (which is in vogue among the VC darlings, especially in the elite networks OP described) is a historically white phenomenon: popped collars, brogramming, saying shit like YOLO and WHPH ("work hard play hard"). Douchebag culture is a dominant culture in the Valley." I don't work with anyone who sounds IN ANY WAY like what you're describing. I won't go so far as to say I think you're making it up, but if this is real, it's doing a very good job of hiding from us at least.

lhnz 13y ago

>> Douchebag culture and black culture are radically different. You're talking about a bunch of white guys creating a rap site and telling me that they're not trying to channel black culture. If the stylings and bravado at RapGenius weren't related to culture from rap/hip-hop I'd be very surprised. In the past in the UK we used to have "Wigger" culture [0] and it actually was fairly similar... I don't think this anger has anything to do with being a douchebag. I've met people that dressed and spoke weirdly that have been perfectly nice people. I think that people recognise the style as douchebag because it's uncomfortable for them to see white people "acting black". [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger

Ryanmf 13y ago
Stop. >> You're talking about a bunch of white guys creating a rap site and telling me that they're not trying to channel black culture. Oh, they're trying alright. Said douchebags are roughly as representative of black culture as Ali G was. Though it would seem they're not in on the joke. There is no "channelling" going on. You can be a person of any color who appreciates and celebrates hip hop culture without reducing its participants to cardboard cut-outs.
- lhnz 13y ago
  There's no joke here. And little harm being done. RapGenius is a well loved by its market. If you believe that how people dress and speak defines their worthiness as a human being (and it seems you do) then go along your own way. I do not.
  - Ryanmf 13y ago
    This isn't complicated. There's a difference between identity and affectation. When your affectation conflates "acting black" (as if that's even a thing one can do) with "acting moronic", your affectation is intrinsically racist. And when you willfully adopt a racist affectation because despite being a Yale/Stanford Law grad you're apparently incapable of understanding how fucking offensive that is, I am not obligated to show you one single iota of respect. These guys don't represent anyone but themselves, and—of late—they're doing a poor job of it. (btw — I think Rap Genius is a great product. I hope its founders don't ruin it.)
    - lhnz 13y ago
      >> This isn't complicated. Stop insinuating that I don't understand you. I understand you, I just disagree with you. >> There's a difference between identity and affectation. When your affectation conflates "acting black" (as if that's even a thing one can do) with "acting moronic", your affectation is intrinsically racist. Do you think that they believe they are acting moronically? Or is this perception of moronic behaviour your own? If it's the latter - which I expect it is - then you are projecting racism onto them. It's not something which is intrinsic - it requires the perceiver to have your value system. (My perception is that they are not acting like morons. And that it's all just good fun.) The problem I have with this whole argument is that even if a guy had a popped collar, was wearing dark sunglasses inside and kept saying everything was "baller", I'd prefer him infinitely over the guy that looked at him and declared him to be "moronic" and a "douchebag" because of his style. One is harmless but the other is something which to me signifies a close-minded asshole.
      - Ryanmf 13y ago

JonnieCache 13y ago

>shit like YOLO and WHPH ("work hard play hard") People are saying that second one out loud? How? My mental image of what SV is like gets sillier by the day. I should draw a comic or something. We should start the same thing in the UK. I'm gonna put "RIP Esco" at the end of every presentation from now on. Showerman mode.

pmarca 13y ago

"Douchebag culture (which is in vogue among the VC darlings, especially in the elite networks OP described) is a historically white phenomenon: popped collars, brogramming, saying shit like YOLO and WHPH ("work hard play hard"). Douchebag culture is a dominant culture in the Valley." I don't work with anyone who sounds IN ANY WAY like what you're describing. I won't go so far as to say I think you're making it up, but if this is real, it's doing a very good job of hiding from us at least.