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The standard answer has been The Peter Principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle TLDR: People who

by IvyMike 13y ago

The standard answer has been The Peter Principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle TLDR: People who are good at their job get promoted. But once they are mediocre at their job, they stop getting promoted. So you have a bunch of middle managers who have all risen to their maximal level of incompetence.

aspir 13y ago
That makes sense as to the cause. But surely not all managers fall victim to this. At least I hope the horrible managers get quickly identified and corrected/dismissed.
- Nevermark 13y ago
  Without an automatic way of removing manager responsibility, it is very difficult to demote/fire good people who have simply hit a wall. Especially as other managers (both lower and higher up) have a strong interest in making the demote/fire process as difficult as possible. One way would be for teams to vote (or better yet form a consensus) on their next manager for each new project (or project step). So anyone voted up as manager always knows the job is temporary, unlikely to be 100% of the time even if they are a good manager. It would push managers to be leaders (i.e. coordinating others to get the best from everyone), as apposed to directors (telling everyone what to do). It would also push everyone to continually think about management of their project from a manager's perspective. That's my idea, but it would take a lot of experience to know whether it would work, or how to make it scale or sync with other types of management for higher levels of management. Maybe after someone has had a string of management successes at a project level they could be voted up for multi-team management, etc. And new management hires, would have to be vulnerable to being not voted in as managers the next time around, which would put a lot of pressure on them. TLDR: Management should be a flexible role based on each project's needs like any other team role.
brianpgordon 13y ago
There's also the perhaps more-cynical Dilbert principle: > In many cases the least competent, least smart people are promoted, simply because they’re the ones you don't want doing actual work. You want them ordering the doughnuts and yelling at people for not doing their assignments—you know, the easy work. Your heart surgeons and your computer programmers—your smart people—aren’t in management. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle

by IvyMike 13y ago

aspir 13y ago

That makes sense as to the cause. But surely not all managers fall victim to this. At least I hope the horrible managers get quickly identified and corrected/dismissed.

Nevermark 13y ago
Without an automatic way of removing manager responsibility, it is very difficult to demote/fire good people who have simply hit a wall. Especially as other managers (both lower and higher up) have a strong interest in making the demote/fire process as difficult as possible. One way would be for teams to vote (or better yet form a consensus) on their next manager for each new project (or project step). So anyone voted up as manager always knows the job is temporary, unlikely to be 100% of the time even if they are a good manager. It would push managers to be leaders (i.e. coordinating others to get the best from everyone), as apposed to directors (telling everyone what to do). It would also push everyone to continually think about management of their project from a manager's perspective. That's my idea, but it would take a lot of experience to know whether it would work, or how to make it scale or sync with other types of management for higher levels of management. Maybe after someone has had a string of management successes at a project level they could be voted up for multi-team management, etc. And new management hires, would have to be vulnerable to being not voted in as managers the next time around, which would put a lot of pressure on them. TLDR: Management should be a flexible role based on each project's needs like any other team role.

brianpgordon 13y ago

There's also the perhaps more-cynical Dilbert principle: > In many cases the least competent, least smart people are promoted, simply because they’re the ones you don't want doing actual work. You want them ordering the doughnuts and yelling at people for not doing their assignments—you know, the easy work. Your heart surgeons and your computer programmers—your smart people—aren’t in management. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle