4 ms·

But information is intimately tied to matter, no? Information is capable of having an affect on matter: when I store information on a CD, that information is ca

But information is intimately tied to matter, no? Information is capable of having an affect on matter: when I store information on a CD, that information is capable of having an "interesting" affect on a CD player to produce music, or words on a page have an "interesting" affect on the reader. Information is abstract, but I can't call it "spiritual". What is the difference between a random string of bits and, say, a huffman coded string of audio? Both have seemingly random distributions. The informational aspect comes with its ability to cause an "interesting" affect in an information-coupled hunk of matter. It seems wrong to call the random string information when it cannot produce a low-probability, surprising outcome when it interacts with a specific hunk of matter. But the encoded audio stream does exactly that! Independent of a hunk of matter capable of decoding it, can a string of bits be said to carry information?

shmerl 13y ago
> But information is intimately tied to matter, no? Rather it's other way around. Matter is tied to information. The matter is the medium for it, but information can be in itself. It's commonly expressed with the metaphor of a vessel. Matter is a vessel which is filled with essence (which thus binds it). But the filling itself is unbound until it's expressed through the vessel (medium). > Information is capable of having an affect on matter Definitely, as I said above, there is an approach which says they aren't conceptually separated (but only perceptually). > Information is abstract, but I can't call it "spiritual". How do you define "spiritual"? According to R' Boruch of Kosov for example, spiritual can be understood as abstract, or information-type. It was understood similarly by Tsiolkovsky.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  I think we're mostly in agreement as far as matter being the medium for information. But can information exist independent of matter? If not then does it make sense to reify information as if it is its own entity? Is it really helpful to decouple the two concepts?
  - shmerl 13y ago
    According to the view which puts information as primary, it not only can exist independent of matter, it defines the matter.
    - hackinthebochs 13y ago
      That may be true from a quantum physics perspective, but it's not very useful to us at the scale we live on (analogous to relativity vs quantum mechanics). I'm asking so many questions because I've been trying to come up with a useful working definition of information. It's surprisingly hard.
      - shmerl 13y ago
        It surely is hard. According to mystics it's very useful practically for our relation and interaction with the world and spiritual elevation. I.e. it can be put out of the abstract theory into very practical humane terms.

shmerl 13y ago

> But information is intimately tied to matter, no? Rather it's other way around. Matter is tied to information. The matter is the medium for it, but information can be in itself. It's commonly expressed with the metaphor of a vessel. Matter is a vessel which is filled with essence (which thus binds it). But the filling itself is unbound until it's expressed through the vessel (medium). > Information is capable of having an affect on matter Definitely, as I said above, there is an approach which says they aren't conceptually separated (but only perceptually). > Information is abstract, but I can't call it "spiritual". How do you define "spiritual"? According to R' Boruch of Kosov for example, spiritual can be understood as abstract, or information-type. It was understood similarly by Tsiolkovsky.

hackinthebochs 13y ago
I think we're mostly in agreement as far as matter being the medium for information. But can information exist independent of matter? If not then does it make sense to reify information as if it is its own entity? Is it really helpful to decouple the two concepts?
- shmerl 13y ago
  According to the view which puts information as primary, it not only can exist independent of matter, it defines the matter.
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    That may be true from a quantum physics perspective, but it's not very useful to us at the scale we live on (analogous to relativity vs quantum mechanics). I'm asking so many questions because I've been trying to come up with a useful working definition of information. It's surprisingly hard.
    - shmerl 13y ago
      It surely is hard. According to mystics it's very useful practically for our relation and interaction with the world and spiritual elevation. I.e. it can be put out of the abstract theory into very practical humane terms.