7 ms·

Two Huge Companies Betting On Firefox OS

121 points by mxpxpx 13y ago

kumarm 13y ago
I have used G1 and have ZTE Firefox OS phone. G1 performed better 5 years back compared to ZTE Firefox OS phone today. As much as everyone of us want Firefox OS win, It has long way to go in a market that is already dominated by Big Players with great talent and motivation to win it.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  Also, with lots and lots of money...
- RussianCow 13y ago
  I don't think anyone can reasonably expect Firefox OS to "win" over iOS and Android in the foreseeable future. In fact, the target market is completely different; Firefox OS is marketing itself as a no-frills, low-cost alternative with an emphasis on developing countries. In that space, I think it can definitely "win", but it's far too late for it to compete with the big players in the developed world.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    Exactly - are we hoping for Firefox to win, or just to survive?
    - Groxx 13y ago
      Probably to win over a different target: Nokia.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        In that case, I'm sure not hoping for them to win. Nokia hardware has always been my favorite.
        fabrice_d 13y ago
        Firefox OS is not tied to one hardware manufacturer. Indeed Nokia hardware is great - I'd like to find time to port fxos on my n9!
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        Clearly Nokia has switched OS at least once (Windows Phone) but I see them a lot like iPhones. The software and hardware comes as a package. They are apart from the Samsung/HTC/Huawei/LG/IForgetTheRest group that runs whatever OS is useful.
    - sp332 13y ago
      I don't care if the Firefox OS wins, as long as its APIs are standardized and incorporated into other OS's.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        sp332 13y ago
        But there are a lot of APIs required. Web apps didn't have access to even basic things like the phone dialer before (on Android or iOS at least).
  - kllrnohj 13y ago
    Android is free AND has widespread driver support from SoC vendors. Firefox OS uses more hardware resources to achieve the same tasks and has less vendor support. In fact, what little driver support it currently has from vendors comes from the fact that it's actually sitting on top of Android (a fact that's often ignored). Which one is low-cost again?
    - RussianCow 13y ago
      I don't mean cost in terms of software efficiency. I mean that Firefox phones are generally going to cost less (in terms of money) than Android ones. As a plus, you don't have to tie your phone to any company's services (Google, Apple, etc). And don't forget that Firefox OS is much newer than Android, so you really can't compare them side-by-side like that. Let's drop the dramatic fanboyism, hmm?
      - kllrnohj 13y ago
        > I mean that Firefox phones are generally going to cost less (in terms of money) than Android ones. I know what you meant, I was pointing out you were wrong. If the device costs more to an OEM to make (which Firefox OS does), then it's going to cost the user more to purchase. This is basic stuff here... > As a plus, you don't have to tie your phone to any company's services (Google, Apple, etc). Android isn't tied to any company's services. > Let's drop the dramatic fanboyism, hmm? Er, right back at you?
- aroch 13y ago
  The G1 was released as a high-end flagship smartphone to compete with the iPhone. The ZTE FxOS phones are low-end smartphones competing in the feature phone market.
  - comex 13y ago
    Yet, as it is five years later, the latter has considerably better hardware.
    - adamnemecek 13y ago
      But upon the initial release in 08, Android had already been in development for some 5 years.
      - comex 13y ago
        Maybe, but among other things, it was also running Java code on a pure interpreter :) I don't have any personal experience of either the ZTE Open or G1's performance, but an ancient Android phone shouldn't be a hard target to beat.
        kevingadd 13y ago
        Missing the key detail that huge parts of the Android stack, even then, were not interpreted Java. (Skia, for example)
- ricardobeat 13y ago
  Is that model similar to the Geeksphone Peak? I have a Keon and it is a bit slow, but the Peak is just as fast as (maybe even faster than) an iPhone, re. launching and switching apps and overall responsiveness. Quite impressive for a HTML5-based system UI. Regardless, Firefox OS is not actually competing with Android/iOS right now, it's goal is to bring smartphones to the very low end of the market and push open web technologies at the same time. It seems to be working.
  - toggle 13y ago
    No, the ZTE is not at all similar to the Geeksphone Peak. It's even slower than the Keon -- it has half as much RAM as the Keon, and only 512 MB of internal storage (I think the Keon has 4 GB).
  - hershel 13y ago
    Currently the cheapest androids are at$55 and have 512mb ram, which is fine for kitkat. How does ffos compete with that?
- PeterWhittaker 13y ago
  everyone of us want Firefox OS (to) win We do? I'm not sure that I care one way or another. Does the device work as expected? Does it do useful things? Does it do the fun things that I actually want it to do? Then I don't care much one way or another. On a related but possibly tangential digression, I'm showing my age, yes, but I want my TV to be a TV - a device for showing for moving pictures provided via a suitably optimized device of another ilk (I'm quite happy to accept the second function of OTA tuning, just 'coz it's pretty much always there and saves me buying another device - what with having cancelled cable about 18 months ago). So I neither want nor need it to have an OS. There's an AppleTV sitting below my TV. It has an OS. I don't give a damn - it works pretty darned well, thanks. I don't know what's inside my receiver to give it Internet capabilities, and don't care - I use them very little, when my 20 year old receiver died, I bought the best value receiver that had the features I wanted: 7.1, AM, FM, CD in, Aux in.... Yeah, that was about it. AirPlay is nice, glad to have it, use it occasionally, didn't want or need it, but its presence was no deal breaker. Internet radio? Don't use it at all. DLNA? Didn't even know what it was when I bought the thing. Don't use it at all right now (don't have a media server, why would I want one? I have Netflix and AppleTV and all of our Airs can stream to AppleTV directly). I never want to buy or receive media again, they take up space, gather dust. I'll read books when they are given to me, or when they are the best form for the content, e.g., books that are image-heavy, but otherwise Google Play Books serves me quite well, thank you. Did I mention OS in any of that? Hmm, nope. Don't know. Don't care. And the OS won't prevent any of the ills that come with any of the above, e.g., DRM-enabled-yank-back, unless you the user are going to pirate to get around the DRM. Technology cannot solve that problem, only the law and the market can, and they need us - all of us - to realize that technology is not the solution and to get out there in front of the issue and agitate for changes in the law and market. Why sure I care which OS wins? I'm pretty sure I don't. But I am willing to entertain serious answers to a serious question. Fire away.
  - mikegioia 13y ago
    Does the device work as expected? Does it do useful things? Does it do the fun things that I actually want it to do? Those aren't the only questions that people can ask about a phone or a mobile OS. I particularly would like a mobile OS that isn't tied to an advertising company (Google) and isn't a black box (iPhone). I don't even have full comfort over everything running on my Android device. I have no way of knowing which companies can access the data on that device and the ways with which they can access it. If those are things you don't care about then yea, you certainly shouldn't care if FirefoxOS "wins". However, them "winning" shouldn't be looked at as them gaining dominant market share in mobile OSes, but rather (a) the open web prevailing and gaining development resources, (b) having a legitimate option for people who DO care about what software is running on their devices.
- 72deluxe 13y ago
  This is very amusing. The G1 had barely enough RAM to load the system, with very little left for apps. I have one (my first Android phone when it first came out!) and it is still in perfect condition, only useful for testing apps on the absolute minimum of hardware to see if they run OK. This is saying alot about the performance of Firefox OS!
ricardobeat 13y ago
Submission title originally matched the linked article's headline. De-editorialization?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dded 13y ago
> On the phone front, LG showed off its entry level phone, the Fireweb Interesting, given that LG just announced WebOs on their TVs: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-01-06/lg-unveils-internet-connected-tv-running-webos-acquired-from-hp http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-01-06/lg-unveils-inter...
- Apocryphon 13y ago
  I have to wonder if there's any level of compatibility between Firefox OS and webOS. The app development process for both would be pretty similar, I'd imagine.
eonil 13y ago
Mozilla vs Google competition is always a lot better than Google monopoly on open-source OS market.
al2o3cr 13y ago
As a current owner of a Panasonic "smart" TV, replacing the current OS with literally ANYTHING would be an improvement. When it's not being annoyingly convoluted to operate, it's being horribly slow to operate. The Youtube app looks like what happens when management signs off on the design as static mockups - it's gorgeous on screen, but scrolling is a laggy mess. Using the search function (complete with a "keyboard" that is 1D) is so clunky that even the app encourages you to pair your smartphone to avoid it.
schmichael 13y ago
> Despite its many benefits, there still just isn’t a whole lot of excitement for the Firefox OS. What are its benefits other than not being controlled by Apple, Google, or Microsoft? The only benefit the author cites is HTML5 apps which can be built for any OS using a variety of different platforms.
- wahnfrieden 13y ago
  You can't really use HTML5 and feel like a native app on iOS at least.
V-2 13y ago
The underdogs are sort of in the same boat: Firefox, Ubuntu and Tizen... if apps developed with HTML5 are cross-platform (well, easily portable between the three), it would certainly be a good booster. On the other hand if there's no talks carried out behind the scenes adressing this aspect, it's not a good portent.
_random_ 13y ago
As someone has written before, Microsoft caught the last train with its WP. It's too late for non-revolutionary mobile OS to win a reasonable share of market (and no, crappy ubiquitous script language is not a revolution).
mrbill 13y ago
The ZTE Open is noticeably better/faster/more responsive after manually installing the FFOS 1.1 update. Not keeping me from giving it to a friend, though - I was not as impressed with FFOS as I thought I would be.
jay_kyburz 13y ago
I would just like to say that getting paid to work on Firefox OS all day long is my dream job. If there are any Firefox OS devs reading, I would love to chat about what I should be doing now to improve my chances of joining the team towards the end of the year.
skz 13y ago
Any hope of using this phone in America with Sprint?
voidr 13y ago
> Developing an app for Firefox OS really is as simple as building an HTML5 web app. Building a high quality HTML5 web app is hard and complicated. > Despite its many benefits, there still just isn’t a whole lot of excitement for the Firefox OS. That may change though if LG, ZTE, or especially Panasonic can create compelling hardware to show off the open source software. Despite what benefits? What does Firefox OS do better than everybody else? If Mozilla wants consumers to adopt it's OS, it should focus on features that actually matter to users, otherwise, it will be just a platform for vendor/carrier crapware.

121 points by mxpxpx 13y ago

I have used G1 and have ZTE Firefox OS phone. G1 performed better 5 years back compared to ZTE Firefox OS phone today. As much as everyone of us want Firefox OS win, It has long way to go in a market that is already dominated by Big Players with great talent and motivation to win it.

sirkneeland 13y ago
Also, with lots and lots of money...
RussianCow 13y ago
I don't think anyone can reasonably expect Firefox OS to "win" over iOS and Android in the foreseeable future. In fact, the target market is completely different; Firefox OS is marketing itself as a no-frills, low-cost alternative with an emphasis on developing countries. In that space, I think it can definitely "win", but it's far too late for it to compete with the big players in the developed world.
- mathattack 13y ago
  Exactly - are we hoping for Firefox to win, or just to survive?
  - Groxx 13y ago
    Probably to win over a different target: Nokia.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      In that case, I'm sure not hoping for them to win. Nokia hardware has always been my favorite.
      - fabrice_d 13y ago
        Firefox OS is not tied to one hardware manufacturer. Indeed Nokia hardware is great - I'd like to find time to port fxos on my n9!
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        Clearly Nokia has switched OS at least once (Windows Phone) but I see them a lot like iPhones. The software and hardware comes as a package. They are apart from the Samsung/HTC/Huawei/LG/IForgetTheRest group that runs whatever OS is useful.
  - sp332 13y ago
    I don't care if the Firefox OS wins, as long as its APIs are standardized and incorporated into other OS's.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      - sp332 13y ago
        But there are a lot of APIs required. Web apps didn't have access to even basic things like the phone dialer before (on Android or iOS at least).
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  Android is free AND has widespread driver support from SoC vendors. Firefox OS uses more hardware resources to achieve the same tasks and has less vendor support. In fact, what little driver support it currently has from vendors comes from the fact that it's actually sitting on top of Android (a fact that's often ignored). Which one is low-cost again?
  - RussianCow 13y ago
    I don't mean cost in terms of software efficiency. I mean that Firefox phones are generally going to cost less (in terms of money) than Android ones. As a plus, you don't have to tie your phone to any company's services (Google, Apple, etc). And don't forget that Firefox OS is much newer than Android, so you really can't compare them side-by-side like that. Let's drop the dramatic fanboyism, hmm?
    - kllrnohj 13y ago
      > I mean that Firefox phones are generally going to cost less (in terms of money) than Android ones. I know what you meant, I was pointing out you were wrong. If the device costs more to an OEM to make (which Firefox OS does), then it's going to cost the user more to purchase. This is basic stuff here... > As a plus, you don't have to tie your phone to any company's services (Google, Apple, etc). Android isn't tied to any company's services. > Let's drop the dramatic fanboyism, hmm? Er, right back at you?
aroch 13y ago
The G1 was released as a high-end flagship smartphone to compete with the iPhone. The ZTE FxOS phones are low-end smartphones competing in the feature phone market.
- comex 13y ago
  Yet, as it is five years later, the latter has considerably better hardware.
  - adamnemecek 13y ago
    But upon the initial release in 08, Android had already been in development for some 5 years.
    - comex 13y ago
      Maybe, but among other things, it was also running Java code on a pure interpreter :) I don't have any personal experience of either the ZTE Open or G1's performance, but an ancient Android phone shouldn't be a hard target to beat.
      - kevingadd 13y ago
        Missing the key detail that huge parts of the Android stack, even then, were not interpreted Java. (Skia, for example)
ricardobeat 13y ago
Is that model similar to the Geeksphone Peak? I have a Keon and it is a bit slow, but the Peak is just as fast as (maybe even faster than) an iPhone, re. launching and switching apps and overall responsiveness. Quite impressive for a HTML5-based system UI. Regardless, Firefox OS is not actually competing with Android/iOS right now, it's goal is to bring smartphones to the very low end of the market and push open web technologies at the same time. It seems to be working.
- toggle 13y ago
  No, the ZTE is not at all similar to the Geeksphone Peak. It's even slower than the Keon -- it has half as much RAM as the Keon, and only 512 MB of internal storage (I think the Keon has 4 GB).
- hershel 13y ago
  Currently the cheapest androids are at$55 and have 512mb ram, which is fine for kitkat. How does ffos compete with that?
PeterWhittaker 13y ago
everyone of us want Firefox OS (to) win We do? I'm not sure that I care one way or another. Does the device work as expected? Does it do useful things? Does it do the fun things that I actually want it to do? Then I don't care much one way or another. On a related but possibly tangential digression, I'm showing my age, yes, but I want my TV to be a TV - a device for showing for moving pictures provided via a suitably optimized device of another ilk (I'm quite happy to accept the second function of OTA tuning, just 'coz it's pretty much always there and saves me buying another device - what with having cancelled cable about 18 months ago). So I neither want nor need it to have an OS. There's an AppleTV sitting below my TV. It has an OS. I don't give a damn - it works pretty darned well, thanks. I don't know what's inside my receiver to give it Internet capabilities, and don't care - I use them very little, when my 20 year old receiver died, I bought the best value receiver that had the features I wanted: 7.1, AM, FM, CD in, Aux in.... Yeah, that was about it. AirPlay is nice, glad to have it, use it occasionally, didn't want or need it, but its presence was no deal breaker. Internet radio? Don't use it at all. DLNA? Didn't even know what it was when I bought the thing. Don't use it at all right now (don't have a media server, why would I want one? I have Netflix and AppleTV and all of our Airs can stream to AppleTV directly). I never want to buy or receive media again, they take up space, gather dust. I'll read books when they are given to me, or when they are the best form for the content, e.g., books that are image-heavy, but otherwise Google Play Books serves me quite well, thank you. Did I mention OS in any of that? Hmm, nope. Don't know. Don't care. And the OS won't prevent any of the ills that come with any of the above, e.g., DRM-enabled-yank-back, unless you the user are going to pirate to get around the DRM. Technology cannot solve that problem, only the law and the market can, and they need us - all of us - to realize that technology is not the solution and to get out there in front of the issue and agitate for changes in the law and market. Why sure I care which OS wins? I'm pretty sure I don't. But I am willing to entertain serious answers to a serious question. Fire away.
- mikegioia 13y ago
  Does the device work as expected? Does it do useful things? Does it do the fun things that I actually want it to do? Those aren't the only questions that people can ask about a phone or a mobile OS. I particularly would like a mobile OS that isn't tied to an advertising company (Google) and isn't a black box (iPhone). I don't even have full comfort over everything running on my Android device. I have no way of knowing which companies can access the data on that device and the ways with which they can access it. If those are things you don't care about then yea, you certainly shouldn't care if FirefoxOS "wins". However, them "winning" shouldn't be looked at as them gaining dominant market share in mobile OSes, but rather (a) the open web prevailing and gaining development resources, (b) having a legitimate option for people who DO care about what software is running on their devices.
72deluxe 13y ago
This is very amusing. The G1 had barely enough RAM to load the system, with very little left for apps. I have one (my first Android phone when it first came out!) and it is still in perfect condition, only useful for testing apps on the absolute minimum of hardware to see if they run OK. This is saying alot about the performance of Firefox OS!

ricardobeat 13y ago

Submission title originally matched the linked article's headline. De-editorialization?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dded 13y ago

> On the phone front, LG showed off its entry level phone, the Fireweb Interesting, given that LG just announced WebOs on their TVs: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-01-06/lg-unveils-internet-connected-tv-running-webos-acquired-from-hp http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-01-06/lg-unveils-inter...

Apocryphon 13y ago
I have to wonder if there's any level of compatibility between Firefox OS and webOS. The app development process for both would be pretty similar, I'd imagine.

eonil 13y ago

Mozilla vs Google competition is always a lot better than Google monopoly on open-source OS market.

al2o3cr 13y ago

As a current owner of a Panasonic "smart" TV, replacing the current OS with literally ANYTHING would be an improvement. When it's not being annoyingly convoluted to operate, it's being horribly slow to operate. The Youtube app looks like what happens when management signs off on the design as static mockups - it's gorgeous on screen, but scrolling is a laggy mess. Using the search function (complete with a "keyboard" that is 1D) is so clunky that even the app encourages you to pair your smartphone to avoid it.

schmichael 13y ago

> Despite its many benefits, there still just isn’t a whole lot of excitement for the Firefox OS. What are its benefits other than not being controlled by Apple, Google, or Microsoft? The only benefit the author cites is HTML5 apps which can be built for any OS using a variety of different platforms.

wahnfrieden 13y ago
You can't really use HTML5 and feel like a native app on iOS at least.

V-2 13y ago

The underdogs are sort of in the same boat: Firefox, Ubuntu and Tizen... if apps developed with HTML5 are cross-platform (well, easily portable between the three), it would certainly be a good booster. On the other hand if there's no talks carried out behind the scenes adressing this aspect, it's not a good portent.

_random_ 13y ago

As someone has written before, Microsoft caught the last train with its WP. It's too late for non-revolutionary mobile OS to win a reasonable share of market (and no, crappy ubiquitous script language is not a revolution).

mrbill 13y ago

The ZTE Open is noticeably better/faster/more responsive after manually installing the FFOS 1.1 update. Not keeping me from giving it to a friend, though - I was not as impressed with FFOS as I thought I would be.

jay_kyburz 13y ago

I would just like to say that getting paid to work on Firefox OS all day long is my dream job. If there are any Firefox OS devs reading, I would love to chat about what I should be doing now to improve my chances of joining the team towards the end of the year.

skz 13y ago

Any hope of using this phone in America with Sprint?

voidr 13y ago

> Developing an app for Firefox OS really is as simple as building an HTML5 web app. Building a high quality HTML5 web app is hard and complicated. > Despite its many benefits, there still just isn’t a whole lot of excitement for the Firefox OS. That may change though if LG, ZTE, or especially Panasonic can create compelling hardware to show off the open source software. Despite what benefits? What does Firefox OS do better than everybody else? If Mozilla wants consumers to adopt it's OS, it should focus on features that actually matter to users, otherwise, it will be just a platform for vendor/carrier crapware.