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The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. A teacher does not have to be hardass to encourage children to have high expectati

The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. A teacher does not have to be hardass to encourage children to have high expectations and to be OK with failure. I think a truly effective teacher, at all levels, will encourage curiosity and creativity in subject-matter. The best way to do this, in my view, is mutual respect. The teacher's idolised in this article seem to operate through fear, which eventually fades into a semblance of respect over time. Praise doesn't make you a bad learner, learning in environments that encourage low expectations and stock answers to every situations probably will. Strictness might correlate with high expectations, but it sure as hell isn't the best way of going about it. That said, I agree with a number of points in the article (some are implied from the provided data): - Students with higher expectations perform closer to their potential (whether internal or external expectations, though other research suggests that internal motivation is far more important than external). - There is possibly a formative stage of development where children's expectations are adjusted to their environment. Being surrounded by high expectations will correlate with high expectations with the learners. - People who aren't afraid to fail will achieve more than those who are. - Students who are in environments that emphasise strict route learning perform better on tests and memory exercises (spelling bees) than those who don't. None of that really goes beyond common sense. I'd really love for education to move beyond success = memorisation and into success = adaptability and understanding. The world rewards autodidacts because a lot of us worked this out on our own.

cema 13y ago
mutual respect Absolutely agree. Especially crucial in earlier years (with younger children), when it leads not only to a better learning environment but also helps to form a solid mindset.
yawboakye 13y ago
> I think a truly effective teacher, at all levels, will encourage curiosity and creativity in subject-matter Yes. The question is how do you encourage curiosity and creativity in kids? No, we are not talking about adults. I see this humble request as something similar to what JFK asked when he said America should send a man to the moon. If you have the opportunity, read about the changes all levels of education in the United States had to go through to meet the demands of that "simple" challenge. When you're done come back let's compare to now > The teacher's idolised in this article seem to operate through fear, which eventually fades into a semblance of respect over time. I'm Ghanaian. Educated in Ghana and lived all my life in Ghana. I've had several teachers like Mr. K along the way at almost all levels. I hated my primary and junior high school English Language teacher for "good" reasons. (Especially when he commanded, yes commanded, that English is the only language permitted to be spoken on campus.) I'd say worse things about him to my parents. But my dad liked him because his homework assignments kept me busy all the time. I knew I was a smart kid but the score I had for his tests said something else about me and I wasn't ready to accept that. No! So you know what, I worked harder and harder for what I knew was mine. Progress follows hardwork. Now, every time I have the prized opportunity of shaking that man's hand I do so with a beaming face and a sort of pride that says to him: "I can't thank you enough for coming into my life." He's proud of his students and we're proud of him too. I speak and (perhaps) write good English because he piqued my interest and taught me to strive because I can always get better. > None of that really goes beyond common sense Beats my imagination that we always have to be reminded about commonsense. I was told economics is plain commonsense. But there's a Nobel prize for it, right? Maybe commonsense put itself too much in our face we linger for what's rare. And that "the solution is not the obvious solution" mantra (a.k.a bullshit) might not be true after all. If you agree, can we just return to commonsense?
- colomon 13y ago
  "I speak and (perhaps) write good English because he piqued my interest and taught me to strive because I can always get better." You used "piqued" correctly, that already puts you beyond probably 80% of native-born English speakers in writing. ;)
  - thrush 13y ago
    woah. is this an actual statistic? any chance you have a reference for where you got that number? (genuine curiosity)
    - colomon 13y ago
      Sorry, no, that number was completely pulled out of my ass as a slightly more interesting way of saying that failed attempts to use that phrase are distressingly common. "Peaked my interest" and "peeked my interest" both get millions of hits on Google search. My impression is it's one of the most common English errors you see that doesn't involve pronoun trouble.
- vicbrooker 13y ago
  > Yes. The question is how do you encourage curiosity and creativity in kids? I'm working on this now, and should be ready to talk more openly soon. More useful data than test scores can be measured in classroom, and I'm currently experimenting with ways of visualising mood and personalities in classrooms. It makes it much easier for teachers to know how much energy/encouragement they need to provide (or calm the class down, if necessary). It's exciting stuff and it's starting to come together nicely. > "I can't thank you enough for coming into my life." He's proud of his students and we're proud of him too. I've had two teachers like this personally, one was a bit gruff and was more on the 'strict' side of the continuum. He brought history to life for thousands of students at my school. The other was so passionate about teaching that he would bounce around the class like a big kid when he taught. The things they had in common was passion and a willingness to demonstrate how hard they would work for their students. I would say that your teacher would also have displayed these qualities. > If you agree, can we just return to common sense? My point was that the article tried to twist observations that are more or less common sense to further an argument that harsh teachers are effective. There's not always a lot of value in simply stating common sense. Finding ways to apply it is a different thing. On a side note, I've only brushed the surface of economics (particularly from a psychology point of view) and I've found it anything but common sense, or even logical for that matter.
thrush 13y ago
> The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. Perhaps you're right. But what about honest = effective. How often do teachers change a grade because parents call in, or because the student complains? Too often. Whether it's from parents or the institution, there are a lot of outside factors that pressure teachers to give good grades even when they are not deserved. No matter which way you put it, getting a bad grade always hurts, especially when good grades are being given in other classes. I think that's one of the reasons that teachers who are "tougher" are looked down upon. People think they're mean, but sometimes they're just being honest and want you to succeed so much that they wouldn't dare give you a grade that doesn't reflect your actual progress. For the same reason, teachers don't want to have this label, so they resort to being "easier" and less honest. This certainly happens at the high school and middle school level, but recent news has looked at grading practices at Harvard. There was a grader who admitted to giving out As that were undeserved, and although I couldn't find that article this one talks about how A is the most frequently given grade at Harvard (while A- is the median) [1]. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/harvard-grade-inflation-_n_4384848.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/harvard-grade-infla...
- vicbrooker 13y ago
  'Honestly' grading a kid is tricky, especially because, as you mentioned, a teacher's ethics (or lack thereof) may skew things. I'm not sure if it's the exact word I would use but I agree with the principle that metrics should reflect the student's actual state. 'Consistency' is perhaps what I would go with. Also, I see a difference between being a hard marker and being a harsh teacher. I don't really have a problem with the former, the article here talks mostly about the latter. My problem is with anyone who promotes 'strictness/harshness' in classrooms. Can't agree enough that there are problems with the system in general, and a society that wants everyone to succeed while also placing so much emphasis on getting people to fit bell curves. I'm working on getting new data out of classrooms right now: quantified engagement, mood, desired learning conditions, preferred methods of content delivery etc. I think that the main root of the problems we have is a desire for things to be 'right' or 'wrong'. It kills curiosity, engagement and creativity and in no way reflects the real world. EDIT: clarity
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Well yeah. This is the Wall Street Journal we're talking about. Even without them publishing an article, given my knowledge of their ideology, I can predict that they will almost always favor strictly-applied negative reinforcement as a chief motivating force for managing people. It's just one of the defining beliefs of their worldview: people are pigs in clothing who must be tamed by the system through force.

cema 13y ago

mutual respect Absolutely agree. Especially crucial in earlier years (with younger children), when it leads not only to a better learning environment but also helps to form a solid mindset.

yawboakye 13y ago

> I think a truly effective teacher, at all levels, will encourage curiosity and creativity in subject-matter Yes. The question is how do you encourage curiosity and creativity in kids? No, we are not talking about adults. I see this humble request as something similar to what JFK asked when he said America should send a man to the moon. If you have the opportunity, read about the changes all levels of education in the United States had to go through to meet the demands of that "simple" challenge. When you're done come back let's compare to now > The teacher's idolised in this article seem to operate through fear, which eventually fades into a semblance of respect over time. I'm Ghanaian. Educated in Ghana and lived all my life in Ghana. I've had several teachers like Mr. K along the way at almost all levels. I hated my primary and junior high school English Language teacher for "good" reasons. (Especially when he commanded, yes commanded, that English is the only language permitted to be spoken on campus.) I'd say worse things about him to my parents. But my dad liked him because his homework assignments kept me busy all the time. I knew I was a smart kid but the score I had for his tests said something else about me and I wasn't ready to accept that. No! So you know what, I worked harder and harder for what I knew was mine. Progress follows hardwork. Now, every time I have the prized opportunity of shaking that man's hand I do so with a beaming face and a sort of pride that says to him: "I can't thank you enough for coming into my life." He's proud of his students and we're proud of him too. I speak and (perhaps) write good English because he piqued my interest and taught me to strive because I can always get better. > None of that really goes beyond common sense Beats my imagination that we always have to be reminded about commonsense. I was told economics is plain commonsense. But there's a Nobel prize for it, right? Maybe commonsense put itself too much in our face we linger for what's rare. And that "the solution is not the obvious solution" mantra (a.k.a bullshit) might not be true after all. If you agree, can we just return to commonsense?

colomon 13y ago
"I speak and (perhaps) write good English because he piqued my interest and taught me to strive because I can always get better." You used "piqued" correctly, that already puts you beyond probably 80% of native-born English speakers in writing. ;)
- thrush 13y ago
  woah. is this an actual statistic? any chance you have a reference for where you got that number? (genuine curiosity)
  - colomon 13y ago
    Sorry, no, that number was completely pulled out of my ass as a slightly more interesting way of saying that failed attempts to use that phrase are distressingly common. "Peaked my interest" and "peeked my interest" both get millions of hits on Google search. My impression is it's one of the most common English errors you see that doesn't involve pronoun trouble.
vicbrooker 13y ago
> Yes. The question is how do you encourage curiosity and creativity in kids? I'm working on this now, and should be ready to talk more openly soon. More useful data than test scores can be measured in classroom, and I'm currently experimenting with ways of visualising mood and personalities in classrooms. It makes it much easier for teachers to know how much energy/encouragement they need to provide (or calm the class down, if necessary). It's exciting stuff and it's starting to come together nicely. > "I can't thank you enough for coming into my life." He's proud of his students and we're proud of him too. I've had two teachers like this personally, one was a bit gruff and was more on the 'strict' side of the continuum. He brought history to life for thousands of students at my school. The other was so passionate about teaching that he would bounce around the class like a big kid when he taught. The things they had in common was passion and a willingness to demonstrate how hard they would work for their students. I would say that your teacher would also have displayed these qualities. > If you agree, can we just return to common sense? My point was that the article tried to twist observations that are more or less common sense to further an argument that harsh teachers are effective. There's not always a lot of value in simply stating common sense. Finding ways to apply it is a different thing. On a side note, I've only brushed the surface of economics (particularly from a psychology point of view) and I've found it anything but common sense, or even logical for that matter.

thrush 13y ago

> The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. Perhaps you're right. But what about honest = effective. How often do teachers change a grade because parents call in, or because the student complains? Too often. Whether it's from parents or the institution, there are a lot of outside factors that pressure teachers to give good grades even when they are not deserved. No matter which way you put it, getting a bad grade always hurts, especially when good grades are being given in other classes. I think that's one of the reasons that teachers who are "tougher" are looked down upon. People think they're mean, but sometimes they're just being honest and want you to succeed so much that they wouldn't dare give you a grade that doesn't reflect your actual progress. For the same reason, teachers don't want to have this label, so they resort to being "easier" and less honest. This certainly happens at the high school and middle school level, but recent news has looked at grading practices at Harvard. There was a grader who admitted to giving out As that were undeserved, and although I couldn't find that article this one talks about how A is the most frequently given grade at Harvard (while A- is the median) [1]. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/harvard-grade-inflation-_n_4384848.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/harvard-grade-infla...

vicbrooker 13y ago
'Honestly' grading a kid is tricky, especially because, as you mentioned, a teacher's ethics (or lack thereof) may skew things. I'm not sure if it's the exact word I would use but I agree with the principle that metrics should reflect the student's actual state. 'Consistency' is perhaps what I would go with. Also, I see a difference between being a hard marker and being a harsh teacher. I don't really have a problem with the former, the article here talks mostly about the latter. My problem is with anyone who promotes 'strictness/harshness' in classrooms. Can't agree enough that there are problems with the system in general, and a society that wants everyone to succeed while also placing so much emphasis on getting people to fit bell curves. I'm working on getting new data out of classrooms right now: quantified engagement, mood, desired learning conditions, preferred methods of content delivery etc. I think that the main root of the problems we have is a desire for things to be 'right' or 'wrong'. It kills curiosity, engagement and creativity and in no way reflects the real world. EDIT: clarity

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

Well yeah. This is the Wall Street Journal we're talking about. Even without them publishing an article, given my knowledge of their ideology, I can predict that they will almost always favor strictly-applied negative reinforcement as a chief motivating force for managing people. It's just one of the defining beliefs of their worldview: people are pigs in clothing who must be tamed by the system through force.