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Could it be that many people are actually interested in science? There is nearly continuous hand-wringing that kids are no longer interested in science, yet ma

Could it be that many people are actually interested in science? There is nearly continuous hand-wringing that kids are no longer interested in science, yet many go into fields like physics, astronomy, and biology despite knowing the job prospects are better elsewhere (finance, programming, petroleum engineering, etc.). And then many continue on for a PhD despite it not making financial sense to do so. One possibility is that they are either highly misinformed or just irrational. But one could be that they actually want to advance physics, astronomy, biology, or whatever their chosen field is, and they see it as a necessary prerequisite (finding a career in physics with a physics BSc is difficult). If so, then we have one of two problems (or perhaps a mixture): 1. Too many kids are interested in science. We should stop trying to encourage interest in science as a career, and rather encourage kids to develop interests elsewhere, to reduce the glut. No more kids-oriented physics or astronomy programs on public TV! 2. The existing scientific career pathways are not sufficient to provide productive scientific careers to enough of the people interested in pursuing a scientific career. We should figure out what to do about that, whether it involves debugging/debottlenecking some of the pathways, increasing funding, producing new funding models (perhaps research funding not tied to universities), etc.

tensor 13y ago
This was certainly my own motivation. Contributing something to our collective knowledge was the goal. The value of that in my eyes was worth the time. On a slightly different topic, why is HN so obsessed with PhDs? PhDs represent a very small fraction of the population, and they are not particularly vocal either. Yet you see article after article here about PhDs, the majority of the comments being negative or hostile.
- VLM 13y ago
  "PhDs represent a very small fraction of the population" In the general population. Which is not HN. (edited to correct "potential PHD program candidates" not actual holders) The ratios are probably about the same... maybe 1 in 10 chance of success if you go academic, maybe 1 in 10 chance of success if you go startup route, roughly the same odds from roughly the same population. WRT "the majority of the comments being negative or hostile" From the linked article: "I went looking and found nothing in the last 10 years. In fact, I ended up reading several articles warning students against graduate work" So that is an aspect where the HN population does match the general population.
- cossatot 13y ago
  I think it's the status; there are a fair amount of people on HN who have PhDs (I have no idea what the actual fraction is; ~5-10%?) and a lot more equally smart people who don't have one. And some (surely small) fraction of those people either have their own insecurities, or feel badgered by PhDs (like michaelochurch below, who I am glad explained his negativity). But it saddens me a bit, because getting a PhD really can be a wonderful and valuable thing.
  - mjn 13y ago
    HN's local PhD-holders are interesting examples of how having a PhD doesn't really mean you have to do any specific thing (or pursue an academic career). When I was doing a little research on the most prolific HN posters [1], I found 3 of the top 20 have a PhD, and none are in academia: Paul Graham runs YCombinator, John Graham-Cumming is a programmer and author, and Colin Wright works in maritime technology (while also giving mathematics talks to students on the side). Another only-slightly-less-prolific poster is Colin Percival, who runs a one-man technology business (Tarsnap). [1] http://www.kmjn.org/notes/hacker_news_posters.html http://www.kmjn.org/notes/hacker_news_posters.html
BlackDeath3 13y ago
>Too many kids are interested in science. We should stop trying to encourage interest in science as a career, and rather encourage kids to develop interests elsewhere, to reduce the glut. No more kids-oriented physics or astronomy programs on public TV! Sounds like an edict in Tropico.
gjm11 13y ago
Yes, I think many people actually are interested in science (and quite right too!). But it's worth noting that studying science (at undergraduate-degree or PhD level) is also a pretty good preparation for work in -- to take the examples you list -- finance, programming, or petroleum engineering, and I haven't noticed that having a PhD in physics is any bar to success in such fields.
- wil421 13y ago
  >I haven't noticed that having a PhD in physics is any bar to success in such fields. If you factor in the time in takes to obtain a PhD vs the time it takes to graduate from finance, programming, or petroleum engineering. The route is much faster than the PhD route in the time it takes to become employed. Factor in the experience you would already have if you graduated with a lessor degree + the money you didnt spend on post grad studies. The non PhD route seems like a better career choice. But most PhDs I have meet are doing what they do because they enjoy it.

tensor 13y ago

This was certainly my own motivation. Contributing something to our collective knowledge was the goal. The value of that in my eyes was worth the time. On a slightly different topic, why is HN so obsessed with PhDs? PhDs represent a very small fraction of the population, and they are not particularly vocal either. Yet you see article after article here about PhDs, the majority of the comments being negative or hostile.

VLM 13y ago
"PhDs represent a very small fraction of the population" In the general population. Which is not HN. (edited to correct "potential PHD program candidates" not actual holders) The ratios are probably about the same... maybe 1 in 10 chance of success if you go academic, maybe 1 in 10 chance of success if you go startup route, roughly the same odds from roughly the same population. WRT "the majority of the comments being negative or hostile" From the linked article: "I went looking and found nothing in the last 10 years. In fact, I ended up reading several articles warning students against graduate work" So that is an aspect where the HN population does match the general population.
cossatot 13y ago
I think it's the status; there are a fair amount of people on HN who have PhDs (I have no idea what the actual fraction is; ~5-10%?) and a lot more equally smart people who don't have one. And some (surely small) fraction of those people either have their own insecurities, or feel badgered by PhDs (like michaelochurch below, who I am glad explained his negativity). But it saddens me a bit, because getting a PhD really can be a wonderful and valuable thing.
- mjn 13y ago
  HN's local PhD-holders are interesting examples of how having a PhD doesn't really mean you have to do any specific thing (or pursue an academic career). When I was doing a little research on the most prolific HN posters [1], I found 3 of the top 20 have a PhD, and none are in academia: Paul Graham runs YCombinator, John Graham-Cumming is a programmer and author, and Colin Wright works in maritime technology (while also giving mathematics talks to students on the side). Another only-slightly-less-prolific poster is Colin Percival, who runs a one-man technology business (Tarsnap). [1] http://www.kmjn.org/notes/hacker_news_posters.html http://www.kmjn.org/notes/hacker_news_posters.html

BlackDeath3 13y ago

>Too many kids are interested in science. We should stop trying to encourage interest in science as a career, and rather encourage kids to develop interests elsewhere, to reduce the glut. No more kids-oriented physics or astronomy programs on public TV! Sounds like an edict in Tropico.

gjm11 13y ago

Yes, I think many people actually are interested in science (and quite right too!). But it's worth noting that studying science (at undergraduate-degree or PhD level) is also a pretty good preparation for work in -- to take the examples you list -- finance, programming, or petroleum engineering, and I haven't noticed that having a PhD in physics is any bar to success in such fields.

wil421 13y ago
>I haven't noticed that having a PhD in physics is any bar to success in such fields. If you factor in the time in takes to obtain a PhD vs the time it takes to graduate from finance, programming, or petroleum engineering. The route is much faster than the PhD route in the time it takes to become employed. Factor in the experience you would already have if you graduated with a lessor degree + the money you didnt spend on post grad studies. The non PhD route seems like a better career choice. But most PhDs I have meet are doing what they do because they enjoy it.