4 ms·

Any television series in a modern setting in which characters that are portrayed as "good guys" use torture to achieve their goals is despicable propaga

Any television series in a modern setting in which characters that are portrayed as "good guys" use torture to achieve their goals is despicable propaganda. Yes. Absolutely. I must admit, though... when compared to the cartoonish patriotic jingo-fied violence of the 1980s, where Rambo and the A-Team defeated countless enemies in settings that always felt like a walk in the park... perhaps the torture thing is the lesser of the two evils? The 1980s seemed to want to tell us that war was a melodramatic, often bloodless struggle between the white-hatted good guys and the black-hatted bad guys. If there's a small silver lining to today's torture-promoting crap, at least it's that war is portrayed a bit closer to being the horrible, bloody, morally-confused hell where the "good guys" often look and act an awful lot like the "bad guys." Doesn't take away from your point at all. Totally agree that when torture is portrayed as anything less than evil, there is a very serious problem.

exarch 13y ago
"I must admit, though... when compared to the cartoonish patriotic jingo-fied violence of the 1980s, where Rambo and the A-Team defeated countless enemies in settings that always felt like a walk in the park... perhaps the torture thing is the lesser of the two evils?" At least the heroes in those implausible stories behaved like heroes, rather than villains who you only identify with out of some jingoistic team spirit.
gbog 13y ago
> torture is portrayed I think the root of the problem is more about torture being portrayed at all. Even if you portray it a the evilest thing, you are still playing with the spectator's bowels and disgust thresholds in ways that cannot bring anything good. There is room for torture depiction is some niche genres, like horror or sadism (e.g. Salo) but I can't understand how it should come to mainstream media as TV series and take such a big room. Just like sex and pron: it is ok, but please let it be marginal.
- JohnBooty 13y ago
  That's a really unfortunate opinion regarding the role of art. I don't want a world where art is expected to stay away from uncomfortable topics. Art (and I'm including popular entertainment) plays a very important role in how we think about and understand topics.
  - gbog 13y ago
    We disagree on most levels. Entertainment is to art what a tabloid is to Iliad. Torture is not a topic. Examples of topics: war, love, jealousy, courage, friendship, etc. Torture is not uncomfortable per se, it is hot in US because of recent events and revelations. Inflicting pain to someone in order to get what one want is just the most common thing in the world. What is weird is to make a show with this pain, it reminds me of witch burning: you'd bring kids and would get angry if a good guy killed her already. However I agree that it is stupid to expect art to stay away from anything: this beast has its own reasons and goes were it pleases.
    - JohnBooty 13y ago
      This is great! What else isn't a topic?

exarch 13y ago

"I must admit, though... when compared to the cartoonish patriotic jingo-fied violence of the 1980s, where Rambo and the A-Team defeated countless enemies in settings that always felt like a walk in the park... perhaps the torture thing is the lesser of the two evils?" At least the heroes in those implausible stories behaved like heroes, rather than villains who you only identify with out of some jingoistic team spirit.

gbog 13y ago

> torture is portrayed I think the root of the problem is more about torture being portrayed at all. Even if you portray it a the evilest thing, you are still playing with the spectator's bowels and disgust thresholds in ways that cannot bring anything good. There is room for torture depiction is some niche genres, like horror or sadism (e.g. Salo) but I can't understand how it should come to mainstream media as TV series and take such a big room. Just like sex and pron: it is ok, but please let it be marginal.

JohnBooty 13y ago
That's a really unfortunate opinion regarding the role of art. I don't want a world where art is expected to stay away from uncomfortable topics. Art (and I'm including popular entertainment) plays a very important role in how we think about and understand topics.
- gbog 13y ago
  We disagree on most levels. Entertainment is to art what a tabloid is to Iliad. Torture is not a topic. Examples of topics: war, love, jealousy, courage, friendship, etc. Torture is not uncomfortable per se, it is hot in US because of recent events and revelations. Inflicting pain to someone in order to get what one want is just the most common thing in the world. What is weird is to make a show with this pain, it reminds me of witch burning: you'd bring kids and would get angry if a good guy killed her already. However I agree that it is stupid to expect art to stay away from anything: this beast has its own reasons and goes were it pleases.
  - JohnBooty 13y ago
    This is great! What else isn't a topic?