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Ask HN: Co-founding with very close friend

8 points by codegeek 13y ago

I have a very close friend who wants to co-found with me. We both are wannabe entrepreneurs who have many ideas but no execution. We keep talking about ideas day and night. The problem: my friend has no technical ability and neither does he have any business experience. He wants to co-found just because he is sick of the 9-5 stuff and wants to do his own thing. I am hesitant to just co-found with him for 50% because he and I are discussing ideas. I don't want to come off as mean/rude to him but the fact is that I don't really see him bringing a lot of value to the table, at least immediately. To compare, I have taught myself a lot in the last 1-2 years including building web apps. I believe I can get a duct taped web app prototype done by myself. I also have done a lot of research on markets, customer valudations etc. Having said that, I do think that he has a few things to offer but not necessarily as a 50% partner. Bottomline, he could be a potential employee and may be convert to a co-founder later with <50% equity. How can I talk to him about this ? Has anyone been in similar situation ?

lun4r 13y ago
50/50 partnerships can be hugely unstable. google around a bit on this topic before making any decision. (e.g. http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2011/05/09/the-co-founder-mythology/ http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2011/05/09/the-co-founder... and http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2014/01/02/understanding-the-politics-of-tech-startups/ http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2014/01/02/understanding-...)
- codegeek 13y ago
  Thanks. That is some good info.
moron4hire 13y ago
Be the adult in your relationship and tell him no. What is worse, pissing off your friend a little bit now, but he eventually gets over it when you bring over a six-pack and the Speed DVD, or pissing him off 6 months from now when you kick him off the project because he's dragging you down? There ain't no amount of beer and Keanu that heal that feeling of betrayal.
nicholas73 13y ago
I think bottom line is that you need to figure out if the execution can be done with him, within a certain time period. If not, what are your other options. It seems like you don't want to partner with him. In the scheme of things, the absolute equity percentage is not that important (diminishing marginal utility of money). Also in the scheme of things, 1-2 years hacking isn't that much either. So don't make it about fair share. Make it just about whether it's a right fit or not. Is this person honest, hardworking, bright? Or is he a schemer, short-cutter, and a bullshitter? If he is the latter, just tell him straight up you don't think he has the right skills for it to work. If the former, have him start building things or selling to customers. Pretty soon he'll figure out on his own whether he wants to or can continue. Make it clear it's a valueless exploration period and don't sign any agreements until the project is more mature. Maybe he'll develop into a good partner in the future, without any obligation from you.
27182818284 13y ago
>my friend has no technical ability In my experience moving forward, I won't do this again. It is just the little things. You get sick of explaining words like monotonically or whatever that comes up. I don't think you need a hacker/PhD cofounder, but they need to have some tech-savvyness if it is a tech-based startup. It will just make life easier.
- coralreef 13y ago
  If you know he doesn't understand technical lingo, why do you throw it at him?
  - sejje 13y ago
    I've co-founded with my brother and I just didn't use technical lingo. When I did, it was because it would get used constantly and I just explained it one time. I have a pretty good way of explaining tech to non-techies.
  - 27182818284 13y ago
    I don't "throw" it. I speak the way I normally speak. It has come up as a problem before with non-jargony terms too. I'll use something like "modus operandi" or whatever and get blank stares from people. Actually, a recent one I remember using that got blank stares was just "cryptography". That was actually awesome because I knew the etymology off the top of my head, so teaching that one was fun.
- ycmike 13y ago
  I'm in the same boat with my co-founders and totally agree. It's a tech startup and that requires a certain degree of savvy. I mean, if the company is successful you will hire more engineers. If they are clueless that should be a sign.
brudgers 13y ago
Which is worth more: 60% of zero or 50% of zero? Which is worth more: a partner who feels mistreated or one that feels they have been treated fairly? None of which is to suggest that you should ignore your misgivings. Rather to suggest that if you decide to partner with your friend, don't load your relationship down with petty emotional baggage - none of your rationales for equity are related to beating the long odds which mean most startups to fail. Good luck.
ycmike 13y ago
I recently watched an interview with Brian Chesky (Airbnb) and he said how he's only as smart as those he surrounds himself with. I'm finding that out the hard way. It's a big world and the people around you are not the only ones to choose from. I'm on a mission to meet new people.
bliti 13y ago
The problem: my friend has no technical ability and neither does he have any business experience. How would you overcome that while at the same time being productive?

8 points by codegeek 13y ago

lun4r 13y ago

50/50 partnerships can be hugely unstable. google around a bit on this topic before making any decision. (e.g. http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2011/05/09/the-co-founder-mythology/ http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2011/05/09/the-co-founder... and http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2014/01/02/understanding-the-politics-of-tech-startups/ http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2014/01/02/understanding-...)

codegeek 13y ago
Thanks. That is some good info.

moron4hire 13y ago

Be the adult in your relationship and tell him no. What is worse, pissing off your friend a little bit now, but he eventually gets over it when you bring over a six-pack and the Speed DVD, or pissing him off 6 months from now when you kick him off the project because he's dragging you down? There ain't no amount of beer and Keanu that heal that feeling of betrayal.

nicholas73 13y ago

I think bottom line is that you need to figure out if the execution can be done with him, within a certain time period. If not, what are your other options. It seems like you don't want to partner with him. In the scheme of things, the absolute equity percentage is not that important (diminishing marginal utility of money). Also in the scheme of things, 1-2 years hacking isn't that much either. So don't make it about fair share. Make it just about whether it's a right fit or not. Is this person honest, hardworking, bright? Or is he a schemer, short-cutter, and a bullshitter? If he is the latter, just tell him straight up you don't think he has the right skills for it to work. If the former, have him start building things or selling to customers. Pretty soon he'll figure out on his own whether he wants to or can continue. Make it clear it's a valueless exploration period and don't sign any agreements until the project is more mature. Maybe he'll develop into a good partner in the future, without any obligation from you.

27182818284 13y ago

>my friend has no technical ability In my experience moving forward, I won't do this again. It is just the little things. You get sick of explaining words like monotonically or whatever that comes up. I don't think you need a hacker/PhD cofounder, but they need to have some tech-savvyness if it is a tech-based startup. It will just make life easier.

coralreef 13y ago
If you know he doesn't understand technical lingo, why do you throw it at him?
- sejje 13y ago
  I've co-founded with my brother and I just didn't use technical lingo. When I did, it was because it would get used constantly and I just explained it one time. I have a pretty good way of explaining tech to non-techies.
- 27182818284 13y ago
  I don't "throw" it. I speak the way I normally speak. It has come up as a problem before with non-jargony terms too. I'll use something like "modus operandi" or whatever and get blank stares from people. Actually, a recent one I remember using that got blank stares was just "cryptography". That was actually awesome because I knew the etymology off the top of my head, so teaching that one was fun.
ycmike 13y ago
I'm in the same boat with my co-founders and totally agree. It's a tech startup and that requires a certain degree of savvy. I mean, if the company is successful you will hire more engineers. If they are clueless that should be a sign.

brudgers 13y ago

Which is worth more: 60% of zero or 50% of zero? Which is worth more: a partner who feels mistreated or one that feels they have been treated fairly? None of which is to suggest that you should ignore your misgivings. Rather to suggest that if you decide to partner with your friend, don't load your relationship down with petty emotional baggage - none of your rationales for equity are related to beating the long odds which mean most startups to fail. Good luck.

ycmike 13y ago

I recently watched an interview with Brian Chesky (Airbnb) and he said how he's only as smart as those he surrounds himself with. I'm finding that out the hard way. It's a big world and the people around you are not the only ones to choose from. I'm on a mission to meet new people.

bliti 13y ago

The problem: my friend has no technical ability and neither does he have any business experience. How would you overcome that while at the same time being productive?