3 ms·

Some people really have a problem with mathematics; other people have the creative skills of a lemming. Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Ol

by akie 13y ago

Some people really have a problem with mathematics; other people have the creative skills of a lemming. Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon, not even if they tried every waking hour. People are NOT created equal, and your prerequisites ('able-bodied' and 'sound mind') reveal that you know and recognize that.

randomdata 13y ago
> Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon Why do the taught need to be the best of the best for the parent's statement to be valid? Can you not successfully learn how to play chess without being the sole grandmaster?
- aestra 13y ago
  There isn't a sole Grandmaster, it's a title that represents the top players. In Dec 2008 there was 1,192 Grandmasters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 The requirements for becoming a Grandmaster are somewhat complex. A player must have attained an Elo rating of at least 2500 (although they need not maintain this level to obtain or keep the title). In addition, at least two favorable results (called norms) from a total of at least 27 games in tournaments involving other Grandmasters, including some from countries other than the applicant's, are usually required before FIDE will confer the title on a player. There are other milestones a player can achieve to get the title, such as winning the Women's World Championship, the World Junior Championship, or the World Senior Championship. Current regulations can be found in the FIDE Handbook. What's the point of just learning how to play Chess? That's not much of an accomplishment for most people. On the other hand, not everyone has the skills/ability to be a Grandmaster. Plenty of very serious people compete and spend a LOT of time trying to obtain Grandmaster status. Some people devote their entire lives to chess, but only a little over a thousand get it. Do you think the others just weren't trying hard enough? Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? Not to mention the parent mentioned "sound mind" as a prereq, I find this as a mostly insulting term, since it can mean anything you want and it "others" many people in society. It also can become a tautology, you can't do that, you must have not met my prereqs. I'll attack the concept anyways. "(non) sound mind" is a (mostly) legal term (Non compos mentis) which means (not) competent [to stand trial, to make medial decisions, etc...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis
  - randomdata 13y ago
    > Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? You are talking about degrees of mastery, the parent was talking about doing it in any capacity. It is quite possibly true that only some can become the best chess players in the world, but is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? The latter is the attitude many hold, which he found disconcerting. > I find this as a mostly insulting term That may be a fair, but it was clearly added to defend against nit-picking comments like "my aunt is in a coma" or "my friend has no legs".
    - aestra 13y ago
      >is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? I don't play Chess, so I'm going to make an assumption here that the rules are somewhat complex? I am also going to say something pretty not PC. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of people I have met in my life that can't be taught to play Chess. I used to work in a restaurant and I trained new hires, you wouldn't believe the incompetence of the people who we hired. That place was a revolving door, we only kept maybe 20% of the people I trained, maybe less. We were asking them to serve customers and memorize many things, simple tasks for me, but very hard tasks for most of the people I trained. After maybe a month or so the incompetent ones got fired for not being able to do the job. They probably only could work somewhere where they did very simple tasks. I hated it because I always had to train, and I didn't like training, but I had to train anyways, because I was the best one there at training, said my boss. 99% of them seemed like they were really trying. Most if not all of them needed the job (why else would you work at a restaurant for low pay?) He hired knowing most of the people he hired weren't going to work out. That's just one example.
      - colechristensen 13y ago
        >you wouldn't believe the incompetence of the people who we hired It seems the incompetence wasn't with the employees but with the trainer. You hold that attitude toward your student and he or she is bound to fail. A teacher who hates teaching combined with people lacking basic skills being expected to succeed in a high pressure environment for low pay? It's not surprising there were a lot of failures. I made no claims about the default ability to teach, it's another learned skill and mastery is uncommon. There are also realities of the restaurant business (and lots of other businesses) which make training quite difficult, but I generally see these as deficiencies of the business management not truths of an industry.

by akie 13y ago

randomdata 13y ago

> Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon Why do the taught need to be the best of the best for the parent's statement to be valid? Can you not successfully learn how to play chess without being the sole grandmaster?

aestra 13y ago
There isn't a sole Grandmaster, it's a title that represents the top players. In Dec 2008 there was 1,192 Grandmasters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 The requirements for becoming a Grandmaster are somewhat complex. A player must have attained an Elo rating of at least 2500 (although they need not maintain this level to obtain or keep the title). In addition, at least two favorable results (called norms) from a total of at least 27 games in tournaments involving other Grandmasters, including some from countries other than the applicant's, are usually required before FIDE will confer the title on a player. There are other milestones a player can achieve to get the title, such as winning the Women's World Championship, the World Junior Championship, or the World Senior Championship. Current regulations can be found in the FIDE Handbook. What's the point of just learning how to play Chess? That's not much of an accomplishment for most people. On the other hand, not everyone has the skills/ability to be a Grandmaster. Plenty of very serious people compete and spend a LOT of time trying to obtain Grandmaster status. Some people devote their entire lives to chess, but only a little over a thousand get it. Do you think the others just weren't trying hard enough? Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? Not to mention the parent mentioned "sound mind" as a prereq, I find this as a mostly insulting term, since it can mean anything you want and it "others" many people in society. It also can become a tautology, you can't do that, you must have not met my prereqs. I'll attack the concept anyways. "(non) sound mind" is a (mostly) legal term (Non compos mentis) which means (not) competent [to stand trial, to make medial decisions, etc...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis
- randomdata 13y ago
  > Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? You are talking about degrees of mastery, the parent was talking about doing it in any capacity. It is quite possibly true that only some can become the best chess players in the world, but is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? The latter is the attitude many hold, which he found disconcerting. > I find this as a mostly insulting term That may be a fair, but it was clearly added to defend against nit-picking comments like "my aunt is in a coma" or "my friend has no legs".
  - aestra 13y ago
    >is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? I don't play Chess, so I'm going to make an assumption here that the rules are somewhat complex? I am also going to say something pretty not PC. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of people I have met in my life that can't be taught to play Chess. I used to work in a restaurant and I trained new hires, you wouldn't believe the incompetence of the people who we hired. That place was a revolving door, we only kept maybe 20% of the people I trained, maybe less. We were asking them to serve customers and memorize many things, simple tasks for me, but very hard tasks for most of the people I trained. After maybe a month or so the incompetent ones got fired for not being able to do the job. They probably only could work somewhere where they did very simple tasks. I hated it because I always had to train, and I didn't like training, but I had to train anyways, because I was the best one there at training, said my boss. 99% of them seemed like they were really trying. Most if not all of them needed the job (why else would you work at a restaurant for low pay?) He hired knowing most of the people he hired weren't going to work out. That's just one example.
    - colechristensen 13y ago
      >you wouldn't believe the incompetence of the people who we hired It seems the incompetence wasn't with the employees but with the trainer. You hold that attitude toward your student and he or she is bound to fail. A teacher who hates teaching combined with people lacking basic skills being expected to succeed in a high pressure environment for low pay? It's not surprising there were a lot of failures. I made no claims about the default ability to teach, it's another learned skill and mastery is uncommon. There are also realities of the restaurant business (and lots of other businesses) which make training quite difficult, but I generally see these as deficiencies of the business management not truths of an industry.