13 ms·
Will Work for Food and Lodging
- thenomad 13y agoREALLY interesting idea - tell me you'll be blogging this? It might be of use for people considering taking you up on this offer (and I'm one of them) to know roughly what your skills are - I know you say you're versatile, but no-one can do everything. Or is the point that you want to do things outside your current comfort zone?
- colechristensen 13y ago>no-one can do everything Anyone can be taught to do (pretty much) anything if they're willing.
- akie 13y agoI'm sorry to be the buzz-kill, but that's simply not true.
- colechristensen 13y agoThis attitude is a disease in our culture. I challenge you to name a single task an able-bodied human with a sound mind cannot be taught to do and explain why.
- RyanZAG 13y agoGiven a 2 week limit, there is no way someone who has not used Haskell before would be able to contribute to a Haskell code base. Same for someone who has not used Java Spring or any other complex system. A task that would not be possible in even a 2 year time limit would be to get a random able-bodied human to contribute to a cryptographic standard. Some stuff is difficult and takes years and years to learn and understand. Taking those years and years is actually physically impossible for a large number of people who would simply break down if forced into it.
- jacquesm 13y ago- Play the violin - Jump higher than the world record holder And any other task that requires more than just being able-bodies and a sound mind.
- jeroen94704 13y agoI guarantee that anyone who puts in their proverbial 10,000 hours will be able to play the violin. For certain values of "play", of course. As with beating the world record holder of any sports discipline, the real top performers have a combination of the right genes, and the dedication to perform at the highest level. And while you probably won't be able to beat the world record, given enough practice/exercise, any able bodied person can become a decent jumper.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- aestra 13y agoFor what definition of able bodied and what definition of decent?
- oskarth 13y agoI don't see a reason why playing violin would be impossible given a couple hundred or thousand hours of deliberate practice. Jumping higher than the WR is a straw man, since that goes for anything - there can only be one #1. However, people can increase their vertical leap substantially if they train things like olympic lifting and plyometric. See The Vertical Jump Development Bible for example programs on how 12-50 year olds can increase their vertical leap on the order of 20 inches.
- jacquesm 13y agoI really tried the violin (I think it is one of the most beautiful instruments), and for more than 'a couple of hundred hours' and it did not work for me. I'm not sure how to articulate the mismatch but I'm pretty good with other musical instruments but between the violin and me it never was love to play it, just endless frustration. At least I can appreciate others that play it a bit better :)
- akie 13y agoSome people really have a problem with mathematics; other people have the creative skills of a lemming. Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon, not even if they tried every waking hour. People are NOT created equal, and your prerequisites ('able-bodied' and 'sound mind') reveal that you know and recognize that.
- randomdata 13y ago> Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon Why do the taught need to be the best of the best for the parent's statement to be valid? Can you not successfully learn how to play chess without being the sole grandmaster?
- aestra 13y agoThere isn't a sole Grandmaster, it's a title that represents the top players. In Dec 2008 there was 1,192 Grandmasters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 The requirements for becoming a Grandmaster are somewhat complex. A player must have attained an Elo rating of at least 2500 (although they need not maintain this level to obtain or keep the title). In addition, at least two favorable results (called norms) from a total of at least 27 games in tournaments involving other Grandmasters, including some from countries other than the applicant's, are usually required before FIDE will confer the title on a player. There are other milestones a player can achieve to get the title, such as winning the Women's World Championship, the World Junior Championship, or the World Senior Championship. Current regulations can be found in the FIDE Handbook. What's the point of just learning how to play Chess? That's not much of an accomplishment for most people. On the other hand, not everyone has the skills/ability to be a Grandmaster. Plenty of very serious people compete and spend a LOT of time trying to obtain Grandmaster status. Some people devote their entire lives to chess, but only a little over a thousand get it. Do you think the others just weren't trying hard enough? Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? Not to mention the parent mentioned "sound mind" as a prereq, I find this as a mostly insulting term, since it can mean anything you want and it "others" many people in society. It also can become a tautology, you can't do that, you must have not met my prereqs. I'll attack the concept anyways. "(non) sound mind" is a (mostly) legal term (Non compos mentis) which means (not) competent [to stand trial, to make medial decisions, etc...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_compos_mentis
- spacktard 13y agoI'm tone deaf but otherwise reasonably smart. Teach me to play the violin.
- aestra 13y agoMath. Some people try for years and year, and I mean really really try and still can't grasp basic math skills. They have to be hand held through high school to get a D and have to repeat courses many times. I have seen it. I have helped many people with math, these people were putting in the effort, real effort. They were practicing extra, getting help from the teacher, from me (I was just helping friends), reading the book, staying after school, etc, etc. I have never seen someone try so hard at someone and just not get it. Something never clicked in their head. I would explain the concepts 2,3,4,5,6 times. Nothing seemed to help. These people really wanted to do well in school and were honor students in most subjects beyond math. One of my friends who had this problem was absolutely brilliant in other ways that I wasn't. One day she picked up a guitar and randomly tough herself how to play it without any formal instruction. I tried for years to learn how to play an instrument as a child, and I just couldn't. It seemed it just didn't click in my head, same as math ability didn't click in hers. Besides define "able-bodied" and "sound mind," you cannot. Does the person with a learning disability get a pass from those requirements? I say they do not, those are stupid requirements, and it just goes to show you that you already admit we are all different with different abilities from the get go. Do you think this kid can get a PhD in math, then say, come up with an advanced cryptography algorithm? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM8iJTiQIEM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM8iJTiQIEM
- fatman 13y agoI agree with your first sentence, but not your overall premise. We are all capable of a hell of lot, usually much, much more than we realize, but not everything. I think most of us, myself included, need to take more chances to try and learn new things and error on the side of trying. However, the wisdom to realize something is truly futile is not a bad thing, after all, we've all got finite time and resources.
- aestra 13y agoAdults are usually impatient. They don't see results right away and give up, not realizing it takes time! Children however can go forever without giving up, and I believe that's one of the (many) reasons why it is easier to learn a skill as a child. Sometimes it is good to remind yourself of this when you want to learn something new or feel like giving up.
- ColinWright 13y agoI used to think that, and I certainly want to believe it. Then I went to teach "Calculus for Business and Economics" at a US university. There was one lad had had an "I can it it!" attitude. He was convinced that with hard work he would be able to get through the course. With that attitude I was happy to put in extra hours to help him get the grades he needed. Many extra hours. Many, many extra hours. But it didn't seem to matter what I did, he just couldn't get the hang of what fractions were all about. He could memorize and follow the rules, he mastered the processes, and he worked diligently on all the exercises I could create or find. But underneath, there was no real spark of understanding. I recently read some unpublished research that suggests that some aspects of mathematical/arithmetical/numerical ability shares something with language. It's been well documented that if you haven't acquired a natural language by the age of 4 or 5 then your long-term abilities will be severely hampered. It's now being suggested in some circles that the same thing might be true with base-line abilities with number. So I no longer take it as a matter of faith that anyone can do anything, so long as they set their mind to it, but that certainly doesn't stop me from encouraging people to try, and helping when ever I can. Edit to match quotation marks.
- jacquesm 13y agoNot sure if this comment is visible or not because I'm under a partial ban here, but I'll amend the post, thanks for the feedback.
- graeme 13y agoI see it, and I don't have showdead on or any special features.
- jacquesm 13y agoOk, thanks for confirming. So the ban really is limited to posting articles. Interesting. That's a first probably, to be able to comment but not to be able to post.
- maxerickson 13y agoThere are frequently enough people complaining about their submissions being auto killed, you aren't the only one under a submission ban.
- ColinWright 13y agoThe circumstances of this one are, well, interesting. And worrying. I offer these links: Two links[0][1], very heavily upvoted, not enough comments to trigger the flame-war detector: Both reached #1 on the front page, then vanished very quickly: http://hnrankings.info/6456034,6455391/ http://hnrankings.info/6456034,6455391/ Possibly dropping faster than normal flagging from ordinary users The question was asked[2] - why did they vanish so quickly? Since then jacquesm has been banned from making submissions. Turn on "Show Dead" and see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jacquesm https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jacquesm Number 3 on the leader board[3] and yet banned from posting. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6455391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6455391 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6456034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6456034 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6458470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6458470 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders
- terhechte 13y agoI love this idea. I live in Germany, and (as pointed out in the text) carpenters can still be seen from time to time during their journeyman years (which is called "Wanderschaft" or "Walz" in German). Slightly OT but here's a picture of what it looks like when they walk across the country [1] I always found this concept deeply fascinating because these people get a chance to see many things from different perspectives simply because they move out of their local village, which many people never do. The application of this concept on modern trades like software development is certainly very interesting. I'm tempted to think that the biggest gain it might have is that one (as the journeyman) can get quick insights into the deep differences between workflows and company culture in the various companies one approaches. I mean, we all know how different the current employer compared to the previous employer can be, now imagine having such a switch every 1-2 weeks. [1] http://www.berufsausbildung-bau.de/images/Wandergesellen.jpg http://www.berufsausbildung-bau.de/images/Wandergesellen.jpg
- ytdtty 13y agoDo they work in those clothes, too?
- terhechte 13y ago@ytdtty your comment has been hellbanned, though I'm not sure whether it was meant as sarcastic as it sounded. So for the sake of hoping that it was genuine interested, yes they do.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bravura 13y agoDoes the size of the hat have any significance? (Genuine interest.)
- eetduddet 13y agoSeriously? I don't see how it could even be interpreted as sarcastic. Those clothes do not look like clothing that is worn by carpenters in my country, and they also do not look practical. Why would you want to be sawing wood and carpentering in bell bottom pants and a floppy hat, for example? The outfit is obviously not entirely directly related to sawing and hammering, unless they saw or hammer with walking sticks in Germany. I don't know, so I asked... Is this site not for discussing things? I apologize for not knowing everything about the culture in your country.
- austenallred 13y agoIf someone else is paying for food and travel, why limit yourself to a certain geographic area? If someone wants to pay for you to fly to and from Australia, I say let them do it - it would only add to the adventure.
- justincormack 13y agoI think his bus is an integral part of this, so it might take a long time to get to Australia.
- jacquesm 13y agoI pay for the travel (at 1 liter per 15 km that's manageable for a two week stint), also I want to be within driving distance of my other responsibilities in case something bad happens (you never know...).
- jeroen94704 13y agoWife/kids.
- justincormack 13y agoRichard Sennett's excellent book "The Craftsman" has a lot about the history of guilds and the training they gave, as well as relating it back to software. Well worth a read.
- gaius 13y agoOne nitpick, journeyman doesn't mean "on a journey", it's journee man, from the French as in, a person paid a day rate for their trade. The next step up, a master, would be paid for completed items, and could employ others.
- jacquesm 13y agoIt's linked, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman
- RafiqM 13y agoThanks, didn't know that.
- raldi 13y agoSeems like more than a nitpick; the whole premise of the article is that journeymen weren't paid, other than room and board, and you're saying they were, in fact, paid a daily rate after all.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jacquesm 13y agoNo, it's a right, not an obligation. I chose to set my 'daily rate' at 0.
- makomk 13y agoI'm fairly sure that, traditionally, the guilds would have set the rates - if you tried working for nothing they wouldn't have been very happy with you at all.
- Blahah 13y agoI think the premise of the article is that jacquesm wants to do the thing he said he wants to do. The journeyman thing is just a nice way to set the story up.
- x2468 13y agoIsn't this the guy who squats on domain names? http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/auction-of-domains-for-sale/ http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/auction-of-domains-for-sale/
- jacquesm 13y agoAh, it's you again. You are apparently unable to see the difference between squatting and buying something then selling it at a later point in time. Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting And note that every domain I have was bought and paid for from whoever owned it previously or registered from the free pool of domains. Also note that a significant portion of those was developed at some point or other but I chose to shut them down.
- nested 13y agoWouldn't "intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else." apply in this case considering you are holding onto a bunch of domain names that you are not using? It is implied that someone is going to use that URL as a trademark of sorts, since it will usually describe their project/business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Pro... says "The law was designed to thwart “cybersquatters” who register Internet domain names containing trademarks with no intention of creating a legitimate web site, but instead plan to sell the domain name to the trademark owner or a third party.[3]" Isn't that you?
- braveheart1723 13y agoThere are many sites online where you can exchange work for lodging. http://www.helpx.net/ http://www.helpx.net/ Here was a nice article on spendin a Christmas working in beautiful locations rather than stuck home. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/12/working-holidays-made-easy http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/12/working-holiday...
- _delirium 13y agoIf you fancy farming, there's one dedicated to that as well: http://www.wwoof.net/ http://www.wwoof.net/
- Joeboy 13y agoI haven't really thought this through, but I'd like to shamelessly take the opportunity to piggy back onto swombat's #1 post: Barring disasters, in early 2014 I will be leaving the precariat and can stop being the money-grubbing mercenary I've been for the last few years. I don't exactly have fuck you money, but I should be able to get by on less than £~10kGBP / $~15kUSD a year. I'm currently based in London, UK. Some things I like the idea of working on are Free Software, encrypted / federated communications, Linux audio, C and embedded software. I've dabbled in all of the above but am not particularly accomplished at any of them. My core skills are python / web development, but I've done plenty of other stuff and am willing and able to learn. Hopefully a look at https://github.com/Joeboy https://github.com/Joeboy will indicate that I am basically able to do computers. If anybody has a job (or part of a job) for me, please get in touch via my website, which is on my HN user page.
- cpach 13y agoIf you haven’t seen them already, have a look at HN’s monthly ”Who’s Hiring?” threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring
- iaskwhy 13y agoQuite funny as I've been thinking about working one or two months per city (in Europe) this year starting next month. I'm still not sure if I'll go ahead as planned but I did enjoy the idea. Best of luck to your adventure!
- emeraldd 13y agoI can't help but think of Mike Rowe's Dirty Jobs when I read this post. It's also one of the best uses I've seen of that Heinlein quote!
- bearwithclaws 13y agoThis is great, Jacques! If I'm within your 1000KM radius, I would send an offer in a heartbeat. Though I don't think there's any project I have that would interest you, but would be really awesome to learn house building.
- mrlithic 13y agoA couple questions around this idea. Are there any liability issues? Could a company who suffers damage from a Journeyman's work hold them liable. Would there need to be contracts ion place. The wayward traveller arriving and working for lodging and sustenance may not be as easy as it sounds. Especially if there are IP issues etc. I like this as opposed to the current scholastic intern system which in some cases seems to create a division between those students who can afford the work experience and those who cannot. Does the German practise have some form of legal or legislative backing behind it? It would be interesting to understand how this operates in these European countries.
- jacquesm 13y agoThat's the spirit :)
- nsns 13y agoSounds like the way Paul Erdős spent his entire life... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality
- georgemcbay 13y agoHopefully minus the benzedrine.
- Dewie 13y ago"my base (Amsterdam) [...] Some stuff I’ve done over the years: [...] designed a windmill" Fitting
- jacquesm 13y agoFor some more info on that: http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill And the sequel: http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill-ii http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill-ii
- falcolas 13y agoDidn't apprentices' families have to pay pretty dearly to get their "food and lodging"? Also, weren't they pretty much indentured servants to their "Masters"? Viewing history through rose tinted glasses aside, this seems like a great way to expand your knowledge. It would be great if something like this could be expanded further; institutionalized as part of the software development craft.
- gallamine 13y ago> weren't they pretty much indentured servants to their "Masters"? I guess it's somewhat like the massive student loans modern students have. You couldn't pay the master what he was worth, so you paid in other ways.
- boyaka 13y agoAnd plenty of people that would otherwise be part of a family are whoring themselves out these days, probably to help with those loans and others.
- macrael 13y agoI think that, in America at least, one of the few professions where this truly is alive and well is medicine. After four years of training you become a Doctor, but then you spend the next 3-5 years as a resident before you start to actually practice. Hospitals are these complex learning institutions where people in various stages of training are involved in everything to keep them learning.
- declan 13y agoGood point. Also Canadian lawyers fresh out of law school go through a one year journeyman program -- it's called "articling." http://www.lsuc.on.ca/articling/ http://www.lsuc.on.ca/articling/ If you poke around, I bet that more professions than you initially suspect have formal or informal apprenticeship or training programs. I've hired reporters who have previously gone through internships or entry-level jobs, which served that purpose. In California, for instance, the state requires that licensed contractors have "at least four full years of experience at a journey level": http://www.cslb.ca.gov/applicants/ContractorsLicense/ExamApplication/BeforeApplyingForLicense.asp http://www.cslb.ca.gov/applicants/ContractorsLicense/ExamApp... The term journeyman is still used in the U.S. to describe plumbers, electricians, etc. as well.
- danomite40 13y agoClinical Psychologists go through something similar too. My girlfriend's PhD program is 5 years of classes and training, and giving therapy under supervision in the clinic under the school's umbrella as well as supervised therapy off-site at hospitals, clinics, and other institutions. Then, she must do a 1 year internship somewhere else (very typically requires relocation). After that she has her PhD but then must "post-doc" for a few years somewhere else (again, typically relocating). Only then can she become licensed.
- rch 13y agoIt is possible to pursue CS in the context of a MD PhD program. However, I think it's rather difficult to justify that level of effort in non-medical fields. Maybe consumer space travel will make it worthwhile to dedicate the entirety of one's 20s to higher CS education, as a minimum qualification, but I'm having trouble coming up with any present-tense examples.
- rogerthis 13y agowill work for food and housing for me, wife and kids. i would legally relocate to the usa
- iandanforth 13y agoIt would be interesting to set up an AirBnB style site for this. I'd love to host burgeoning talent in exchange for some code / design / ee / me work. It would be a pretty cool tradition to "do the rounds" prior to getting your first big job. Or even as a sabattical for more experienced programmers. 2 weeks to a month here, maybe 2 months there. Get a lot of experience and hopefully some recommendations in a short period of time.
- PureApeshit 13y agoI am the true Nomad! http://www.homelesstribe.com/ http://www.homelesstribe.com/
- tcdent 13y agoI applaud your appreciation for diversity. Taking it a step beyond occupation alone, I currently believe it to be a necessity for a healthy and contented life; specialization, due to imbalance, causes harm. Excessive amounts of one type of physical activity (say, running) can cause tissue damage, excessive amounts of most foods (including water) can be toxic, excessive sleep even has shown to be harmful, etc. The only way to avoid overdoing one activity, is to incorporate more of them. Don't think of this as a purely physical practice, either; casual reading, learning and thinking apply as well. This is not easily accomplished when one is expected to devote a majority of their waking hours to a specialized task, however. Nomadism seems to compliment this way of thinking well, as does homesteading.
- sushimako 13y agoBig up for a great journey ahead! I've (kindof) been living a version of this lifestyle you're describing for >2yrs now. Reading your story now makes me smile, seeing the similarities in retrospect. When i started my journey, i basically just ended my lease, got rid of the stuff that wouldn't fit in my back-pack and went off with a vague idea of living like a "modern nomad". But i didn't really have any idea how that could work or how it would even feel like. It's important (and often hard) to let go of clinging to expectations. Any too-specific thoughts about yourself in 6mon from now will be smashed. You are in the process of gifting yourself the freedom from "needing" a plan for (e.g.) "next summer", next year or your pension. Some highlights of my journey so far: * designed and built a light-projection/"hologram" art-installation (learned: VJ software, some stage-building, event-production) * helped a small team fighting through the infamous last 20% of their hostel project (learned: carpentry, metalworks) * helped a family whith the groundworks for their eco-community in the jungle of costa rica(bridge building, gps-surveying, swingin' da macheteee) * some burning man projects (organizing camps, carpentry, electronics/arduino/LED circuits, 2 small art-cars, learned how to build and design hexayurts [0]) * helped kick-off/co-founded a warehouse-community in SF Almost the entire time I've been active IT-wise as well, ranging from co-founding startups, helping others out, private fun projects or sometimes freelance jobs to keep me over the water, financially. Sometimes i sleep in hostels, many times at (new) friends. Sometimes you freeze, feel lonely, have no motivation, everything sucks. Suddenly, sooner than you'd have believed, you wake up in a huge beach-house with a crazy-beautiful oceanview. Be someone who others appreciate having around. This heavily involves giving in some way or the other (physical help, IT help, cooking help, babysitting, talking, being a friend, paying). Try to find out what works best for you; which of your options of giving are the most fruitful (e.g. in terms of learning or new friends!) and which ones just a means to an end (for me, paying/money is often (but not always) on the latter end of this spectrum). You're up for some good fun, my friend. Just always remember to go with the flow learn to embrace change/insecurity. [0] https://flo.jottit.com/moonberry https://flo.jottit.com/moonberry *fmt
- jacquesm 13y agoThanks for all your kind words. I think quite a few bits & pieces of your advice apply to general living as well, and I feel a lot of them are already present in my current life. I like your dome! Here's one I did a while ago: http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/stjoes/dome/ http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/stjoes/dome/
- ChuckMcM 13y agoNow that my kids are out of the house this sounds like it would be very rewarding. I'll have to chat with the spouse about something like this.
- jacquesm 13y agoIf I can help make it happen in some way let me know. Feel free to use my farmhouse as a base if you plan on doing this in Europe.
- notastartup 13y agoI'd be interested to see if embedded systems development or engineering in general took this route. Imagine not having to study the textbook but learning the ropes from a master who will teach you, I think one can learn the fastest by being taught without memorizing lecture notes or reading. Simply someone teaching their tips and tricks and following through. it's an interesting concept.
- eru 13y agoIdeally, you'd combine both approaches. Books do have their uses.
- adelle 13y agoI would like to piggy back on this post to mention that I'm willing to work for Latte, especially if you also have a shower or food. I'm based in Sydney, Australia and you can find me on LinkedIn.
- jacquesm 13y agomaybe leave the link to your linkedin page?
- einhverfr 13y agoA thought here. We've become way overcredentialled as a society. There are a lot of things where comp-sci degrees are genuinely helpful and a lot of areas where they are required for no real reason other than HR gets too many resumes. This idea of an apprentice/journeyman/master progression is something I think has tremendous potential in the tech industry. A lot of it can be learned by doing, and for the theoretical stuff, a good Master ought to be able to teach it or provide materials for self-study. I would like to see this idea take off more.
- Taek 13y agoI think there are parallels between the Journeyman of the past and the college student of the present. You spend lots of time learning under different people, and often you travel (internships and co-ops) making less pay than a full professional (or no pay at all).