5 ms·

Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned is that the purchase agreement might include some kind of first refusal for the manufacturer to repurchase the eq

Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned is that the purchase agreement might include some kind of first refusal for the manufacturer to repurchase the equipment if the original owner wants to sell. This kind of provision prevents the emergence of a used-equipment market, the existence of which would cut into the manufacturer's pricing power on new equipment. Requiring the manufacturer's consent to relocate the equipment would be one way for the manufacturer to enforce such an agreement. tl;dr if you sell expensive machinery then do everything in your power to prevent buyers from reselling.

hkmurakami 13y ago
Wasn't there a YC company whose business is to resell semiconductor capital equipment? Must be a bit of a goldmine business. edit: Found them. http://www.asseta.com/ http://www.asseta.com/
fsck--off 13y ago
The market isn't small enough for these tactics to work. It's much more likely that this was a response to the very real and well documented problem of illegal exports. Another Japanese company, Mitutoyo, was caught several times illegally exporting these machines to embargoed countries, including North Korea and Iran. Some of Mitutoyo's executives were jailed for this.[1] Adding tamper-proofing and tracking is a great way to make sure that regain confidence and avoid prison. Edit: I'm not sure why this was downvoted. A representative from Mori said something similar on the board linked to by the original article: "Regarding the device, Weapons of Mass Destruction. Worst case for a negligent violation would be Dr. Mori himself spending time in the slammer. That along is enough motivation for DMG MORI to follow the regulation very carefully. Other reasons include all of those stated above! btw, no need to waste time on bypassing it. It is pretty solid. We have to make it so Iran, N. Korea, etc's best can't bypass it." [2] I think that this is a perfectly plausible explanation and don't think that the real ulterior motive is controlling resale, especially when other foreign competitors do not have the same restrictions. [1] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/09/02/news/mitutoyo-tied-to-iran-north-nuclear-quests/#.UmWKRlPp47k http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/09/02/news/mitutoyo-ti... [2] http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/mori-ellison-gyroscope-unlocking-273841/ http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-m...
- simoncion 13y ago
  Isn't that a problem for Customs to worry about?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- anotherbadlogin 13y ago
  That doesn't hold water. How grossly incompetent would the engineering have to be if the machine can't tell the difference between being moved a few hundred feet vs. out of the country? If the vendor knows the original ("approved") location of the machine, it can figure out where the nearest border of an embargoed country is. This policy is thus bullshit.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  Then why not just white-list all the areas not covered by the embargo so customers are not required to got trough this lengthy procedure every time they want to re arrange the shop. Also it's not very difficult to trick a GPS sensor into thinking its somewhere else as long as your signal is a lot better then the ones coming from the satellite so i would disagree with them being solid.
  - drchaos 13y ago
    > it's not very difficult to trick a GPS sensor into thinking its somewhere else as long as your signal is a lot better then the ones coming from the satellite and that's probably the reason why they include a gyro and shut down the machine if it is moved at all, regardless of what the GPS says.
    - Fuxy 13y ago
      And once you're dome moving it you fake your location by spoofing the GPS and call to get it activated again and none's the wiser. A gyroscope doesn't do much besides detect if it was moved it can't tell where it was moved so you're basically relying on spoof-able input.

hkmurakami 13y ago

Wasn't there a YC company whose business is to resell semiconductor capital equipment? Must be a bit of a goldmine business. edit: Found them. http://www.asseta.com/ http://www.asseta.com/

fsck--off 13y ago

The market isn't small enough for these tactics to work. It's much more likely that this was a response to the very real and well documented problem of illegal exports. Another Japanese company, Mitutoyo, was caught several times illegally exporting these machines to embargoed countries, including North Korea and Iran. Some of Mitutoyo's executives were jailed for this.[1] Adding tamper-proofing and tracking is a great way to make sure that regain confidence and avoid prison. Edit: I'm not sure why this was downvoted. A representative from Mori said something similar on the board linked to by the original article: "Regarding the device, Weapons of Mass Destruction. Worst case for a negligent violation would be Dr. Mori himself spending time in the slammer. That along is enough motivation for DMG MORI to follow the regulation very carefully. Other reasons include all of those stated above! btw, no need to waste time on bypassing it. It is pretty solid. We have to make it so Iran, N. Korea, etc's best can't bypass it." [2] I think that this is a perfectly plausible explanation and don't think that the real ulterior motive is controlling resale, especially when other foreign competitors do not have the same restrictions. [1] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/09/02/news/mitutoyo-tied-to-iran-north-nuclear-quests/#.UmWKRlPp47k http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/09/02/news/mitutoyo-ti... [2] http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/mori-ellison-gyroscope-unlocking-273841/ http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-m...

simoncion 13y ago
Isn't that a problem for Customs to worry about?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
anotherbadlogin 13y ago
That doesn't hold water. How grossly incompetent would the engineering have to be if the machine can't tell the difference between being moved a few hundred feet vs. out of the country? If the vendor knows the original ("approved") location of the machine, it can figure out where the nearest border of an embargoed country is. This policy is thus bullshit.
Fuxy 13y ago
Then why not just white-list all the areas not covered by the embargo so customers are not required to got trough this lengthy procedure every time they want to re arrange the shop. Also it's not very difficult to trick a GPS sensor into thinking its somewhere else as long as your signal is a lot better then the ones coming from the satellite so i would disagree with them being solid.
- drchaos 13y ago
  > it's not very difficult to trick a GPS sensor into thinking its somewhere else as long as your signal is a lot better then the ones coming from the satellite and that's probably the reason why they include a gyro and shut down the machine if it is moved at all, regardless of what the GPS says.
  - Fuxy 13y ago
    And once you're dome moving it you fake your location by spoofing the GPS and call to get it activated again and none's the wiser. A gyroscope doesn't do much besides detect if it was moved it can't tell where it was moved so you're basically relying on spoof-able input.