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>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. O

>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. Organic search and paid search are silo'd. To say that Google favors advertisers in the organic results or the other way round, is simply not true. It would destroy Google's credibility. >how tempting do you think it would be for Google It approaches conspiracy thinking. I love that, but I think HN is not the place. You are basically accusing a company of a very evil act, without proper evidence. Do you realize that many Googlers frequent this site? It would be a shame if all they get to read are conspiracy theories and baseless accusations. >Especially when considering that the rules are so vague that almost every site is guaranteed to break some Hogwash. Their rules are very clear and succinct. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35769?hl=en https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35769?hl=en Maybe if you want to spam or manipulate, then these rules are vague. Maybe when you don't read the guidelines then they are vague. I bet that if you can point to a rule that almost every site breaks, without them knowing, then Google will adjust that rule to be more clear. You can not please them all. >Penalize them using a generic message and refuse on principle to answer any inquiries as to why. You can certainly not please the spammers that were caught with their hands in the cookie jar and then take to the internet to say that Google is unfair, and that the big brands get away with anything.

ForHackernews 13y ago
> Organic search and paid search are silo'd. According to who? Google? Is there any transparency or any way for an outsider to verify that?
- blauwbilgorgel 13y ago
  Yes. According to Google. It is a myth that is years old. Matt Cutts answers: Do AdWords customers get special treatment in organic search results? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aV5DmL_eog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aV5DmL_eog If there is evidence that Google gives special treatment to Adwords customers in organic search then this could be verified as a lie. As long as this evidence remains nothing more than accusations and suspicions, then I choose to believe Google that there is no teacup orbiting Venus. It seems unlikely, but not impossible. I am willing to sway my view when I get evidence. Till then, I will treat it as a common newbie myth.
woah 13y ago
In other words- "They just wouldn't!"
mtrimpe 13y ago
> Their rules are very clear and succinct. If I think of a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that valuable content or are those doorway pages? If I give when someone few months of my service for free when they write a nice article with a link to my site... is that good customer service or a link scheme? If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme? None of these cases are all that clear cut and I for one am not comfortable with Google being the judge, jury and executioner. > It approaches conspiracy thinking. That's not the point. The point is that Google is a massive company wielding massive power. When it comes to fighting a penalization their position is that they don't need to defend their decisions, implying that they can be trusted not to abuse their position and hence deserve to have the final say, legally, over these decisions. I don't buy that and think it's about time that contesting Google penalties in court becomes a regular thing.
- blauwbilgorgel 13y ago
  > If I think of a a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that great content or are those doorway pages? Create a useful, information-rich site, and write pages that clearly and accurately describe your content. Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it. Doorway pages are typically large sets of poor-quality pages where each page is optimized for a specific keyword or phrase. Some examples of doorways include: Having multiple domain names targeted at specific regions or cities that funnel users to one page Templated pages made solely for affiliate linking Multiple pages on your site with similar content designed to rank for specific queries like city or state names >If when someone writes a nice article with a link to my site I give them a a few months of my service for free... is that good customer service or a link scheme? Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you, or to a Google employee. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?" Any links intended to manipulate PageRank or a site's ranking in Google search results may be considered part of a link scheme and a violation of Google’s Webmaster Guidelines. This includes any behavior that manipulates links to your site or outgoing links from your site. Large-scale article marketing or guest posting campaigns with keyword-rich anchor text links can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results. The best way to get other sites to create high-quality, relevant links to yours is to create unique, relevant content that can naturally gain popularity in the Internet community. Effectively promoting your new content will lead to faster discovery by those who are interested in the same subject. Avoid: attempting to promote each new, small piece of content you create; go for big, interesting items. Avoid: involving your site in schemes where your content is artificially promoted to the top of these services. Avoid: spamming link requests out to all sites related to your topic area. Avoid: purchasing links from another site with the aim of getting PageRank instead of traffic. > If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme? Links with optimized anchor text in articles or press releases distributed on other sites can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results. Note: I wouldn't expect links from press release web sites to benefit your rankings, however.

ForHackernews 13y ago

> Organic search and paid search are silo'd. According to who? Google? Is there any transparency or any way for an outsider to verify that?

blauwbilgorgel 13y ago
Yes. According to Google. It is a myth that is years old. Matt Cutts answers: Do AdWords customers get special treatment in organic search results? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aV5DmL_eog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aV5DmL_eog If there is evidence that Google gives special treatment to Adwords customers in organic search then this could be verified as a lie. As long as this evidence remains nothing more than accusations and suspicions, then I choose to believe Google that there is no teacup orbiting Venus. It seems unlikely, but not impossible. I am willing to sway my view when I get evidence. Till then, I will treat it as a common newbie myth.

woah 13y ago

In other words- "They just wouldn't!"

mtrimpe 13y ago

> Their rules are very clear and succinct. If I think of a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that valuable content or are those doorway pages? If I give when someone few months of my service for free when they write a nice article with a link to my site... is that good customer service or a link scheme? If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme? None of these cases are all that clear cut and I for one am not comfortable with Google being the judge, jury and executioner. > It approaches conspiracy thinking. That's not the point. The point is that Google is a massive company wielding massive power. When it comes to fighting a penalization their position is that they don't need to defend their decisions, implying that they can be trusted not to abuse their position and hence deserve to have the final say, legally, over these decisions. I don't buy that and think it's about time that contesting Google penalties in court becomes a regular thing.

blauwbilgorgel 13y ago
> If I think of a a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that great content or are those doorway pages? Create a useful, information-rich site, and write pages that clearly and accurately describe your content. Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it. Doorway pages are typically large sets of poor-quality pages where each page is optimized for a specific keyword or phrase. Some examples of doorways include: Having multiple domain names targeted at specific regions or cities that funnel users to one page Templated pages made solely for affiliate linking Multiple pages on your site with similar content designed to rank for specific queries like city or state names >If when someone writes a nice article with a link to my site I give them a a few months of my service for free... is that good customer service or a link scheme? Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you, or to a Google employee. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?" Any links intended to manipulate PageRank or a site's ranking in Google search results may be considered part of a link scheme and a violation of Google’s Webmaster Guidelines. This includes any behavior that manipulates links to your site or outgoing links from your site. Large-scale article marketing or guest posting campaigns with keyword-rich anchor text links can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results. The best way to get other sites to create high-quality, relevant links to yours is to create unique, relevant content that can naturally gain popularity in the Internet community. Effectively promoting your new content will lead to faster discovery by those who are interested in the same subject. Avoid: attempting to promote each new, small piece of content you create; go for big, interesting items. Avoid: involving your site in schemes where your content is artificially promoted to the top of these services. Avoid: spamming link requests out to all sites related to your topic area. Avoid: purchasing links from another site with the aim of getting PageRank instead of traffic. > If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme? Links with optimized anchor text in articles or press releases distributed on other sites can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results. Note: I wouldn't expect links from press release web sites to benefit your rankings, however.