3 ms·

Are you genuinely suggesting that every degree should have a 1:1 (or thereabouts) distribution of male and female graduates?

by aroch 13y ago

ps4fanboy 13y ago
If so a lot of women are going to be upset when they choose architecture which is 80% female in my country.
sp332 13y ago
Not necessarily, although it does worry me that the ratio is declining. Specifically, computer-related fields make more than average amount of money, so getting women into tech would help reduce income inequality and associated issues in our society. But here my specific point is: tech fields would be better off with more women!
- ps4fanboy 13y ago
  income inequality is a myth, people with the same job and same amount of experience make the same amount of money on average.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    Income inequality generally just means that different people make different amounts of money. It's quite obviously true, and has increased quite a lot in the U.S. in recent decades. You mean to be dismissive of the wage gap or pay gap, or maybe more specifically the gender wage gap, or male-female income disparity. Wikipedia seems to indicate that there is a healthy body of research on the topic, with researchers reaching different conclusions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_St...
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      Every study I have ever seen that says there is a wage gap, compares people in different roles and industries which seems stupid. That's like complaining that a teacher doesn't earn as much as a CEO.
- aroch 13y ago
  Why would the tech field be better off with more women?
  - sp332 13y ago
    Computing is a very young field. It's well on its way to infiltrating our everyday lives, but it's incredibly underdeveloped. Leaving women out of the process of creating the world we're going to live in seems like a really bad idea.
    - Jach 13y ago
      What exactly are the mental differences between men and women that lead you to think it'd be a "really bad idea" if women didn't have any role at all in steering the future? (Last time we let a woman try to steer the future, we wound up with COBOL! (Joke alert.)) Is some force actually "leaving out" women in creating the future? Is there some force that's going to lay the smackdown on people like Jeri Ellsworth so that they never go anywhere? You've shifted the goal posts a bit with the emphasis on having more women in positions of creating the future. Personally, I'd rather humanity had more people willing and capable of creating a better future, period, regardless of the other details of their identity. I think there's a shortage, and I regret that my own contributions will if anything likely only be financial to those doing the hard work. Anyway, why would the tech field, as a whole, be better off with more women, when most people in the tech field, male or female, actually don't actively contribute to steering the future? (On your earlier point about income inequality, you might benefit from reading PG's views about that: http://www.paulgraham.com/inequality.html http://www.paulgraham.com/inequality.html)
    - mkr-hn 13y ago
      The garbage man and the bus driver see little benefit from the latest SV IPO. How about a program to encourage people to move into higher potential roles and keep an eye out for implementors giving unfair benefit to one gender/class/whatever.
      - sp332 13y ago
- yummyfajitas 13y ago
  ...so getting women into tech would help reduce income inequality... This is incorrect - assuming these women don't displace men, inequality will go up. Say a woman (or man) moves from a $50k/year office job to a $120k/year tech job. Income inequality will go up. Gini will go up and the "size of the middle class" (typically defined as % of the population between 50% and 150% of the median) will shrink. Simple example: consider a world of 10 people with income of 50k. Gini is zero. Now double the income of one of them. Gini has gone up to 0.08, and size of the middle class has gone from 100% to 90%. So given that you have the stated goal of reducing income inequality, and your proposed policy would actually increase inequality, do you now oppose bringing women into computing? http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/09/07/eliezer-yudkowsky/true-rejection http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/09/07/eliezer-yudkowsky/tru...

Are you genuinely suggesting that every degree should have a 1:1 (or thereabouts) distribution of male and female graduates?

by aroch 13y ago

Are you genuinely suggesting that every degree should have a 1:1 (or thereabouts) distribution of male and female graduates?

ps4fanboy 13y ago

If so a lot of women are going to be upset when they choose architecture which is 80% female in my country.

sp332 13y ago

Not necessarily, although it does worry me that the ratio is declining. Specifically, computer-related fields make more than average amount of money, so getting women into tech would help reduce income inequality and associated issues in our society. But here my specific point is: tech fields would be better off with more women!

ps4fanboy 13y ago
income inequality is a myth, people with the same job and same amount of experience make the same amount of money on average.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  Income inequality generally just means that different people make different amounts of money. It's quite obviously true, and has increased quite a lot in the U.S. in recent decades. You mean to be dismissive of the wage gap or pay gap, or maybe more specifically the gender wage gap, or male-female income disparity. Wikipedia seems to indicate that there is a healthy body of research on the topic, with researchers reaching different conclusions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_St...
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    Every study I have ever seen that says there is a wage gap, compares people in different roles and industries which seems stupid. That's like complaining that a teacher doesn't earn as much as a CEO.
aroch 13y ago
Why would the tech field be better off with more women?
- sp332 13y ago
  Computing is a very young field. It's well on its way to infiltrating our everyday lives, but it's incredibly underdeveloped. Leaving women out of the process of creating the world we're going to live in seems like a really bad idea.
  - Jach 13y ago
    What exactly are the mental differences between men and women that lead you to think it'd be a "really bad idea" if women didn't have any role at all in steering the future? (Last time we let a woman try to steer the future, we wound up with COBOL! (Joke alert.)) Is some force actually "leaving out" women in creating the future? Is there some force that's going to lay the smackdown on people like Jeri Ellsworth so that they never go anywhere? You've shifted the goal posts a bit with the emphasis on having more women in positions of creating the future. Personally, I'd rather humanity had more people willing and capable of creating a better future, period, regardless of the other details of their identity. I think there's a shortage, and I regret that my own contributions will if anything likely only be financial to those doing the hard work. Anyway, why would the tech field, as a whole, be better off with more women, when most people in the tech field, male or female, actually don't actively contribute to steering the future? (On your earlier point about income inequality, you might benefit from reading PG's views about that: http://www.paulgraham.com/inequality.html http://www.paulgraham.com/inequality.html)
  - mkr-hn 13y ago
    The garbage man and the bus driver see little benefit from the latest SV IPO. How about a program to encourage people to move into higher potential roles and keep an eye out for implementors giving unfair benefit to one gender/class/whatever.
    - sp332 13y ago
yummyfajitas 13y ago
...so getting women into tech would help reduce income inequality... This is incorrect - assuming these women don't displace men, inequality will go up. Say a woman (or man) moves from a $50k/year office job to a $120k/year tech job. Income inequality will go up. Gini will go up and the "size of the middle class" (typically defined as % of the population between 50% and 150% of the median) will shrink. Simple example: consider a world of 10 people with income of 50k. Gini is zero. Now double the income of one of them. Gini has gone up to 0.08, and size of the middle class has gone from 100% to 90%. So given that you have the stated goal of reducing income inequality, and your proposed policy would actually increase inequality, do you now oppose bringing women into computing? http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/09/07/eliezer-yudkowsky/true-rejection http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/09/07/eliezer-yudkowsky/tru...