5 ms·

I'd like to see some fairness in the matter. I will sign all the non-disparagement clauses you guys like, if you do the same. In other words, the company cannot

I'd like to see some fairness in the matter. I will sign all the non-disparagement clauses you guys like, if you do the same. In other words, the company cannot make any negative comments about me. In general, I think fairness should be pushed way up front. Want me to give you two weeks notice? Okay. You give me two weeks notice before you "terminate" me. It's all a contract, and there are two sides to it. I don't see any reason why one side gets all the royal treatment, whereas the other always gets the short end of the stick.

throwaway7808 13y ago
Only the life is unfair and the distribution of power is completely asymmetric here. You may actually need a positive reference about you and the company usually don't care what you say. You also don't have any way to verify and prosecute a company, if your former boss actually makes a negative comment about you (think a start-up, an immature founder gradually turning into a complete ass-hole under the pressure of real life and when feeling that you are deserting, when you decide to leave).
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > the distribution of power is completely asymmetric here I'm pretty sure there is no fundamental law of the Universe that makes it so, only the fact that it is allowed to persist in this state by the multitudes who actually (but unknowingly, it seems) hold the power to change it. You know, "if only there was a way" for employees to unite, and therefore increase their bargaining power with employers.
  - throwaway7808 13y ago
    I don't think that employee unions are helpful in the long term. I'd rather see individuals exercising some common sense and making good informed decisions. Like instantly recognizing bullies and not working for (with) them. Quitting, the moment such behaviour is directed toward anyone in the company. After all, if you see someone else being bullied/not paid/whatever, given time, there's a good chance it would apply to you as well.
    - kylemaxwell 13y ago
      It would be great if everyone were in a life situation to be able to do that. Unfortunately, most people are not.
    - Florin_Andrei 13y ago
      > I'd rather see individuals exercising some common sense and making good informed decisions. Make no mistake, I'd rather see that, too. But look around you. Is that how the real world really works? Is that the way of human nature? It sure is nice to lounge around in some libertarian ivory tower, and pontificate about how people are such rational agents, and all that nonsense. Whereas outside it's Hindbrain City all the way. Look at how most people choose their diet - and look at the effects thereof - just to name one out of many chronically idiotic decisions that the masses do. What you're proposing is not rational, it's a pipe dream (or the typical libertarian anti-union dogma). The rational thing is not to sit on your ass and do nothing. The rational thing is to recognize that there is a problem, get up, and fight.
x0054 13y ago
The mutual non-disparagement contract is not all that mutual. As an employee you are prevented from talking bad about the company, so you will say nothing about them. However, if you are looking for a new job, your new employer may call your old employer to check up on you. If there is a mutual non-disparagement contract at play, they will be passed to the corporate console who will tell them that so and so employee did work for the company from date to date, but they can not discuss the matter any further. For all employees this is a huge red flag. And the best thing, when asked about it, the employee would not be able to explain the situation because of the same contract.
- x0054 13y ago
  If your company asks you to sign a non-disparagement contract, ask them for a reference letter in return. Chose a project or 2 you did a good job on and ask them to write you a good or at least ok reference.
- chrismcb 13y ago
  This is all most large corporation will do, confirm you worked for the company. So is it a red flag that you worked for a large company?
  - flurdy 13y ago
    Exactly, many large companies have a company policy that limits them to only confirm the dates and title at the company. Any further elaboration is prohibited (positive or negative) and a former colleague of my missus did get into trouble for elaborating positively in a proper reference when they had such a policy in place.
    - gonzo 13y ago
      True, but there is an effective way around this: "Would you hire Jack(ie) again?" Tells you all you need to know.
      - halter73 13y ago

throwaway7808 13y ago

Only the life is unfair and the distribution of power is completely asymmetric here. You may actually need a positive reference about you and the company usually don't care what you say. You also don't have any way to verify and prosecute a company, if your former boss actually makes a negative comment about you (think a start-up, an immature founder gradually turning into a complete ass-hole under the pressure of real life and when feeling that you are deserting, when you decide to leave).

Florin_Andrei 13y ago
> the distribution of power is completely asymmetric here I'm pretty sure there is no fundamental law of the Universe that makes it so, only the fact that it is allowed to persist in this state by the multitudes who actually (but unknowingly, it seems) hold the power to change it. You know, "if only there was a way" for employees to unite, and therefore increase their bargaining power with employers.
- throwaway7808 13y ago
  I don't think that employee unions are helpful in the long term. I'd rather see individuals exercising some common sense and making good informed decisions. Like instantly recognizing bullies and not working for (with) them. Quitting, the moment such behaviour is directed toward anyone in the company. After all, if you see someone else being bullied/not paid/whatever, given time, there's a good chance it would apply to you as well.
  - kylemaxwell 13y ago
    It would be great if everyone were in a life situation to be able to do that. Unfortunately, most people are not.
  - Florin_Andrei 13y ago
    > I'd rather see individuals exercising some common sense and making good informed decisions. Make no mistake, I'd rather see that, too. But look around you. Is that how the real world really works? Is that the way of human nature? It sure is nice to lounge around in some libertarian ivory tower, and pontificate about how people are such rational agents, and all that nonsense. Whereas outside it's Hindbrain City all the way. Look at how most people choose their diet - and look at the effects thereof - just to name one out of many chronically idiotic decisions that the masses do. What you're proposing is not rational, it's a pipe dream (or the typical libertarian anti-union dogma). The rational thing is not to sit on your ass and do nothing. The rational thing is to recognize that there is a problem, get up, and fight.

x0054 13y ago

The mutual non-disparagement contract is not all that mutual. As an employee you are prevented from talking bad about the company, so you will say nothing about them. However, if you are looking for a new job, your new employer may call your old employer to check up on you. If there is a mutual non-disparagement contract at play, they will be passed to the corporate console who will tell them that so and so employee did work for the company from date to date, but they can not discuss the matter any further. For all employees this is a huge red flag. And the best thing, when asked about it, the employee would not be able to explain the situation because of the same contract.

x0054 13y ago
If your company asks you to sign a non-disparagement contract, ask them for a reference letter in return. Chose a project or 2 you did a good job on and ask them to write you a good or at least ok reference.
chrismcb 13y ago
This is all most large corporation will do, confirm you worked for the company. So is it a red flag that you worked for a large company?
- flurdy 13y ago
  Exactly, many large companies have a company policy that limits them to only confirm the dates and title at the company. Any further elaboration is prohibited (positive or negative) and a former colleague of my missus did get into trouble for elaborating positively in a proper reference when they had such a policy in place.
  - gonzo 13y ago
    True, but there is an effective way around this: "Would you hire Jack(ie) again?" Tells you all you need to know.
    - halter73 13y ago