6 ms·

I love it whenever anyone insists something "isn't a big deal" or they don't care about it that much. I will simply say that it is a big deal to me, so if it'

I love it whenever anyone insists something "isn't a big deal" or they don't care about it that much. I will simply say that it is a big deal to me, so if it's not a big deal to them, they might as well do it my way. This works in almost all cases, or the other party has to backtrack and then at least we're negotiating on more transparent terms.

ibrad 13y ago
So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Say on my blog. The company is already struggling financially it will cost them to fight back.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  Yeah but you're not going to have a leg to stand on so any lawyer is going to tell you to settle immediately if they even threaten to go after you.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. Legal action is costly for both sides.
    - jusben1369 13y ago
      Not if you're awarded legal fees.
      - vacri 13y ago
        Someone who signs because they need two weeks' pay isn't going to be able to afford both sides of a legal fight. You still have to pay your lawyer while you're waiting for the other side to stump up the money.
      - ScottWhigham 13y ago
        If "you're awarded legal fees", it only happens as a result of a trial/hearing. The cost to prepare + present at trial might be very substantial.
- icameron 13y ago
  Exactly, nothing will happen. At some point you see the big picture; the company is struggling for money. They already know your financial situation (unemployed) so the will not waste resources going after your assets. Like someone else said too, the burden is on them to show something is disparaging. Why not take it to court and drain what little resources they have left. You can drag it out as long as you want, not like you have a job! What a silly clause, I don't ever see it affecting you just from a blog posting. Disclaimer; not a lawyer (thank god because lawyers come up with this bs)
- ggchappell 13y ago
  > So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Then you've broken your word.
  - d0ugie 13y ago
    .. and no shot of a healthy Safe Harbor gift a few months down. I got, on top of three months' severance a surprise $2K Safe Harbor gift, only having worked for the company for just over a year. And they were effective references, including the man who sacked me. Leaving gracefully (and briskly without making a scene) can indeed be helpful, though perhaps not in the Times author's circumstances.
  - mlvljr 13y ago
    ...and their world
  - officemonkey 13y ago
    Well, they have to get a court to decide that, now don't they.
    - ggchappell 13y ago
      Courts decide legal issues. If you give your word that you'll refrain from doing something, and then you do it, then you've broken your word, regardless of legalities.
      - officemonkey 13y ago
        If I signed the contract, I said I would refrain of disparagement. If I was subsequently critical of the firm and the company thought it rose to disparagement, it becomes a legal issue.
- jwatte 13y ago
  But let's say you win the lottery, and a troll buys the cheap remains of the failed company. Now the troll can go after you.
officemonkey 13y ago
Exactly this. If it's "no big deal" then ex it out of the agreement. Oh? You won't? Then I guess it is a big deal after all.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- poopsintub 13y ago
  The same thing happened when they tried to tack on fee when leasing my car. Also, if they offer to split the cost of an add-on with you, they can eat the whole cost most of the time.
BrownBuffalo 13y ago
It's all dependent on the worker's rights in the state in which you work. NYS for example, almost always sides on the side of the employee. One thing to really think about is this - take the paperwork with you, and consult a local Labor office for your state. Kindly say, this is something I need to sleep on. I wouldn't dare sign anything under diress and I'm sure any lawyer worth his salt would say the same.
- pmiller2 13y ago
  You have to be careful about this, too. I've seen one of these from a California employer that uses a Florida "choice of law" clause, too. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect that radically changes the calculus.
chavesn 13y ago
As a corollary, I try to think through this any time I say something "isn't a big deal". Is it really not a big deal to me? What people often mean when they say "it's not a big deal" is "it's a big deal to me, but it shouldn't be to you". Usually, they don't have any right to make that decision for you and it's really just a manipulation technique.
redshirtrob 13y ago
I think the usual response is that the clause is not a big deal, but removing it is--they have to get their lawyers to review the changes, etc. I have seen at least one employer go ahead and make a change without consulting the attorney so I'm not suggesting this is a canned response, just one I've gotten a number of times.

ibrad 13y ago

So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Say on my blog. The company is already struggling financially it will cost them to fight back.

jusben1369 13y ago
Yeah but you're not going to have a leg to stand on so any lawyer is going to tell you to settle immediately if they even threaten to go after you.
- danielweber 13y ago
  Maybe, maybe not. Legal action is costly for both sides.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    Not if you're awarded legal fees.
    - vacri 13y ago
      Someone who signs because they need two weeks' pay isn't going to be able to afford both sides of a legal fight. You still have to pay your lawyer while you're waiting for the other side to stump up the money.
    - ScottWhigham 13y ago
      If "you're awarded legal fees", it only happens as a result of a trial/hearing. The cost to prepare + present at trial might be very substantial.
icameron 13y ago
Exactly, nothing will happen. At some point you see the big picture; the company is struggling for money. They already know your financial situation (unemployed) so the will not waste resources going after your assets. Like someone else said too, the burden is on them to show something is disparaging. Why not take it to court and drain what little resources they have left. You can drag it out as long as you want, not like you have a job! What a silly clause, I don't ever see it affecting you just from a blog posting. Disclaimer; not a lawyer (thank god because lawyers come up with this bs)
ggchappell 13y ago
> So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Then you've broken your word.
- d0ugie 13y ago
  .. and no shot of a healthy Safe Harbor gift a few months down. I got, on top of three months' severance a surprise $2K Safe Harbor gift, only having worked for the company for just over a year. And they were effective references, including the man who sacked me. Leaving gracefully (and briskly without making a scene) can indeed be helpful, though perhaps not in the Times author's circumstances.
- mlvljr 13y ago
  ...and their world
- officemonkey 13y ago
  Well, they have to get a court to decide that, now don't they.
  - ggchappell 13y ago
    Courts decide legal issues. If you give your word that you'll refrain from doing something, and then you do it, then you've broken your word, regardless of legalities.
    - officemonkey 13y ago
      If I signed the contract, I said I would refrain of disparagement. If I was subsequently critical of the firm and the company thought it rose to disparagement, it becomes a legal issue.
jwatte 13y ago
But let's say you win the lottery, and a troll buys the cheap remains of the failed company. Now the troll can go after you.

officemonkey 13y ago

Exactly this. If it's "no big deal" then ex it out of the agreement. Oh? You won't? Then I guess it is a big deal after all.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
poopsintub 13y ago
The same thing happened when they tried to tack on fee when leasing my car. Also, if they offer to split the cost of an add-on with you, they can eat the whole cost most of the time.

BrownBuffalo 13y ago

It's all dependent on the worker's rights in the state in which you work. NYS for example, almost always sides on the side of the employee. One thing to really think about is this - take the paperwork with you, and consult a local Labor office for your state. Kindly say, this is something I need to sleep on. I wouldn't dare sign anything under diress and I'm sure any lawyer worth his salt would say the same.

pmiller2 13y ago
You have to be careful about this, too. I've seen one of these from a California employer that uses a Florida "choice of law" clause, too. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect that radically changes the calculus.

chavesn 13y ago

As a corollary, I try to think through this any time I say something "isn't a big deal". Is it really not a big deal to me? What people often mean when they say "it's not a big deal" is "it's a big deal to me, but it shouldn't be to you". Usually, they don't have any right to make that decision for you and it's really just a manipulation technique.

redshirtrob 13y ago

I think the usual response is that the clause is not a big deal, but removing it is--they have to get their lawyers to review the changes, etc. I have seen at least one employer go ahead and make a change without consulting the attorney so I'm not suggesting this is a canned response, just one I've gotten a number of times.