8 ms·

Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

• danielflopes 13y ago
  The url to the blog post: http://danielflopes.com/choosework/ http://danielflopes.com/choosework/
  • colinbartlett 13y ago
    Worst. Idea. Ever. Stop for a moment and think about what you're promoting: exactly the opposite of most HN readers's want: a work-centric life and an existence that's obsessed with more money, more knowledge, more power.
• amouat 13y ago
  It makes very depressing and uninspiring reading; I don't want to think of my life as being consumed by work. I think you just need a slightly different angle: many happy people have a driving project or belief that inspires them. I think that's what you meant to say. And it's different from "work", which is a four letter synonym for drudgery.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Thanks. That's helpful.
• workaholic 13y ago
  Trying to take as objective a view here as possible... The present hacker zeitgeist disagrees with your viewpoint. Your post came at a particularly bad time, as this post is fresh on the collective's mind: http://sethbannon.com/vacations-are-for-the-weak http://sethbannon.com/vacations-are-for-the-weak
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    That may be true - "the present hacker zeitgeist" may disagree with my point of view. Today there's an emerging trend towards working less and spending more time with family and your hobbies (in some way, the newest book from 37signals supports that). And, well, I don't disagree with that! Neither do I disagree in taking off some vacations, if that makes you feel better (and/or more productive). But my point here is that we should strive to try to work on something that's aligned with our life goals - and those may include spending time with your family, traveling or building a charity. This way, work would have other meaning to us.
    • DanielStraight 13y ago
      So your point is... to be happy, choose work, where work is defined as what will make you happy?
      • pessimizer 13y ago
        That's the problem: vacuousness. If work is defined as what makes you happy, there's no choice to be made.
• malditojavi 13y ago
  How big the sampling of that 10% is?
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    10% of 100 (more or less). It isn't much, I know... but it still is 10%
• byoung2 13y ago
  You seem to be promoting a recipe for burnout, and that's not a popular viewpoint on HN. Of course you need to work hard at anything to be successful, whether it's sports, art, or a startup, but you need to have balance. For example, after dinner I like to read Dr. Seuss to my 14 month old daughter rather than books about programming or startups. When she's asleep, my wife and I like to watch crime dramas on TV. I like that my work stays between business hours and after that, it's family time.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    True, my post's recipe, taken to the fullest, probably will lead to burnout. I should have clarified that. Thanks for your examples.
• loumf 13y ago
  Probably because the post was incongruous with why they subscribed in the first place. 10% of what number? Which post gets you the most subscriptions? Picking Sam Walton as a role-model of happiness is unsubstantiated -- he was definitely rich, so a better title might be: "If you want money, work more" -- which is essentially what you wrote.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    I picked Sam Walton because I've been reading his auto biography, and he seems to be a good example of someone who really loved his job. Also, his family didn't consider him an absent father. He was someone who managed to merge his job, his family and his life goals in an harmonious way. Is 10% of around 100. Tt's a small number, I know... but it still is 10% ... =/
    • Iftheshoefits 13y ago
      Sam Walton came from a family who weathered the Great Depression very well and married into a family which was able to lend him a significant sum of money for the period in order to "bootstrap" his business. Walton, like so many other people who are incredibly successful, started out of the gate far ahead of most of his peers. As a result, he isn't what I'd consider a good example to use for the average person when it comes to work and balancing career with family.
    • eevilspock 13y ago
      I don't know anything about Walton, but in general autobiographies reflect the typically rosy lenses that people use when viewing themselves.
• kohanz 13y ago
  OP, do you have a family (e.g. significant other, kids)? The post reads a bit preachy. When I read this, I think: the only type of person who would recommend this lifestyle is an early 20-something male who doesn't have much else going in their lives. That may or may not be correct (and it shows as much about my own personal bias as it does about the post), and even if it is correct, that's not a bad thing since if that's the significant demographic that you might be aiming for. However, if you have subscribers who have a life at home, with family, that they enjoy, or just enjoy hobbies that are not congruent with making a living, I can see why they felt alienated by this post.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    I consider myself to have a good life. I'm not always in the office working, and I actually spend a lot of time working out and taking care of my best friends and meeting new people. I only try to minimize doing what in nothing contributes to my life or the others around me. That's why, for example, I like to read books that in someway intersect what I do in my job. But that doesn't mean that I never try new stuff and read a good one like "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". And for me, the best way to not "waste time" is by trying to merge your job with what you want with your life, since we already spend so much time on it. I do not have kids. I've recently started a relationship, and I admit that I've been asking myself what's the best way to balance these. I get your point.
    • orasis 13y ago
      Not having kids and only recently being in a relationship makes your life situation quite different from the majority of people out there. People only listen to advice that they can relate to. Imagine a monk giving sex advice ;-P
      • danielflopes 13y ago
        Ahaha Good example to make your point.
    • jwcrux 13y ago
• pg_is_a_butt 13y ago
  you're just another idiot with no kids preaching about life... you know NOTHING. the 90% of your remaining subscribers are also idiots. if you want happiness, stop being an idiot.
• loftsy 13y ago
  A lot of satisfaction, inspiration and personal growth in life comes from leisure time. Enjoying a glass of wine with a friend, meeting a new person. In the end its the people in your life you will remember and who will remember you. Not your achievements.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    I agree with the people side. I forgot to insert that point on my post. But I don't agree that your achievements aren't also one of the biggest sources of happiness. If that weren't true, why did so much people obsessed with goals like climbing the mount Everest and winning the super bowl, or having rich people continuously building new companies?
• ars 13y ago
  I would unsubscribe too, because I quite disagree with this viewpoint. I agree with the basic idea that humans need to do stuff to be happy - but not work necessarily. Taking care of kids is also doing something. Making a nice meal instead of microwaving, is also doing something. Those things bring satisfaction as well.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Ok. But I don't say the contrary - doing those things can also make you happy. But using our job to achieve our life goals is one of the best ways to achieve happiness, in my opinion. Thank you
    • farinasa 13y ago
      It just feels to me like you are over elevating the prestige of "our job". What life goals do you have if all you do is work? I do like taking solace in my job and just shutting out the world sometimes. Otherwise I enjoy concerts, travel, family, cooking/cuisine, woodworking, mechanics, gardening, reading novels, learning about art, botany, physics, rocket science, camping, fishing, hunting, and so many more things. Accomplishment can be achieved in so many ways. A life spent only working seems like such a waste. Dying people generally don't regret the things they did do but instead the things they didn't do. Go live. Life is such an amazing thing to experience. There are so many sights, sounds, smells, and experiences to be had. I can't justify not attempting to discover as many as I possibly can in the short, insignificant span of time that I will be here. Putting yourself in new, uncomfortable situations will increase your creativity way beyond what working and reading technical books could even come close to.
• chany2 13y ago
  I actually agree with your post. And subscribed to you afterwards. I often encounter the same issue. //// Typical Example: Friends ask me what I am doing over the weekend? I said I got some work to do. I have to learn NodeJs, figure out how to parse BCC address off an email, focus on my UI and UX design for my email app, go do more research on hashtags for emails, etc... What I cited there are not "work" per say as coined in most people's mind as the dreary 8 hour work life. What I am actually saying is "I GOT A PROBLEM I AM PASSIONATED IN SOLVING. I AM GOING TO SPEND MY WEEKEND AND NIGHTS RESEARCHING TO SOLVE IT BECAUSE ITS FUN. IT IS MY VIDEOGAME, AND MY WAY OF GAINING SATISFACTION TO IMPROVE MYSELF." //// So basically if you replaced "In 2014, if you want happiness, choose work" with "In 2014, if you want happiness, choose PASSION". No one would unsubscribe.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    You said it well: "What I cited there are not "work" per say as coined in most people's mind as the dreary 8 hour work life." And yes, I understand your point: work can be enjoyed to the point it feels like a videogame! Anyhow, the words and the tone I choose maybe weren't the best to communicate what I mean. Thanks for the feedback (and thanks for subscribing!).
    • Vaskivo 13y ago
      For me, that's the gist of it. When you say 'work' I associate the word with 'job work'. I enjoy programming and reading about programming. And I do it. And I know the same reactions like "You're programming outside your job??". Now the main difference between you and me is that I do these things because I enjoy them, while you do them for the benefits they bring (knowledge, portfolio, etc). I am a bit of an hedonist, and try to do stuff I ENJOY, regardless of the benefits they bring. Example: I like good food. And I like experimenting new kinds of dishes. But I don't like cooking. SO I rarely make elaborate dishes (I usually eat something quickly made). I don't go for the good dishes because I don't enjoy to process to get there! (In university it was common for me to lose way too much time in a project or subject that I enjoyed, and then having to pull one nighters to study for another) Now regarding job work. I am Portuguese, and I believe we have a cultural bias that "job work" is not enjoyable. I share that opinion, in a weird way. To me, I shouldn't love my job. I'm not saying I hate my job, in fact, it has it's fun moments. But it's not my ideal way to spend a day. The momentss where you don't want to get off your bed to go to work, our your, once again, implementing something tedious, that's when I realised what having a job is like. But not loving your job, to me, IS A GOOD THING! It keeps me focused on my objectives. I have hobbies and a girlfriend. My jobs gives me money to travel, buy stuff, and pamper myself and the gf. And eat tasty and expensive food :)
• metaphorm 13y ago
  what you wrote is a post that has little meaningful content or new information. it is a short and (in my opinion) poorly written opinion piece exhorting people to adopt a life style that many consider destructive and counter productive.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Thank you
• lazyant 13y ago
  it's very hard to take seriously advice over long lasting happiness from a 22 year old.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Ok. That's a valid argument.
• amirouche 13y ago
  I share the same point of view “choose work” thing. Even if I agree with you, reading the post (http://danielflopes.com/choosework/ http://danielflopes.com/choosework/), at least the first part of it, makes it feel like it's some kind of a military life, while it's not the case, at least on my side. It's all about the way you present the thing or yourself and in this particular case the post's tone is too much ”rude”, ”strong“, ”military“. It sound like cult propaganda. The second part fails to lower the stress the first part provide. Form advice: The text must be longer, with citations & explanations. Content advice: Work Work Work. What does it mean anyway? When I learn a new technology, I don't feel like I'm working, when I code at home most of the time I don't feel like I'm working... What is significant in my particular case is ”focus (on the craft)”. CS is my passion, I want to learn it, but that's not the only thing I do, as working on any target also means that I need to take the time to break the loop to breath fresh air (with or without focus on self-improvement). Good focus needs a balanced-life.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Great! Yes, my tone may look like i'm doing some propaganda. I hesitated writting with this way, but I hit publish anyway to see what happened. But it's true, it doesn't feel natural. Thank you very much for all the other constructive feedback!
• ThomPete 13y ago
  You lost 10% because you claim things that only 22 year olds do and thus wont be delivering insights to people 32. You have much to learn yet, we all do :)
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    This HN discussion is leading me to that conclusion :)
• CJefferson 13y ago
  The problem is you appear to live in a fantasy land. I only read the second paragraph, but it is one of the stupidest things I've ever read (sorry, that is a harsh thing to say, but I think this requires a reply this strong). "Work from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep. Take your breakfast while reviewing your to-do list for the day. Work a few hours. At lunch, discuss with your team what’s the best solution for that problem. Work some more. At dinner, have a great meal with your loving ones and tell them what’s going on with work. Feel free to ask them for their opinion. After that, go back to work, of course – it’s time to answer to those emails, and read a decent book about a topic of your industry. Have a good night’s sleep." This is incredibly self-centered. What about what your loved ones have been up to (as one tiny example?). And god-forbid you have any children. You need to get THEM breakfast on a morning. Perhaps, maybe, you should spend some time with your "loved ones" on an evening, other than just telling them about your work over dinner then disappearing off to work? I would hate to be your "loved one". CLARIFYING EDIT: This isn't intended to be a personal attack on Daniel's life (which I don't know anything about), just my raw opinions as I read the first two paragraphs of his blog article, hopefully to help him understand why some people took harshly against it.
  • 3am 13y ago
    "I would hate to be your loved one." Is there any need to be that mean spirited about it? I think a sizeable quiet minority is underwhelmed by the work ethic philosophies discussions on HN. I don't think I'd go as far as the submitter, but I don't think I'd categorize it as "incredibly self-centered". edit: to the submitter, I don't think it was bad english or your tone. Some people are unable to consume opinions they disagree with. My unsolicited advice: just continue to be true to yourself and write what you think, you can never keep certain people happy.
    • CJefferson 13y ago
      You are right, what I have written comes across as a personal attack and I'm sorry for that. I should have said "I would hate to be the loved one described in the first two paragraphs of this article". However, I do stand by this adjusted point -- I would not stay in a relationship which operated as described in the first two paragraphs of this article (which, to clarify, I'm not saying is how Daniel's relationship really is -- just how his blog post comes across).
• brohee 13y ago
  Warning: harsh. I had to google it seems you didn't deem us worthy of reading the piece in its entirety. So here it is http://danielflopes.com/choosework/ http://danielflopes.com/choosework/ The title is the least issues with the post. The post is content free, pushing anecdotal evidence (the Sam Walton thing) as data, and stating some pretty important things like "Humans are wired to growth. Long lasting happiness comes from setting big goals and meeting them. It comes from the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort." without any supporting evidence. I would guess the people who unsubscribed followed the spirit of your article, and unsubscribed because their time is too precious to read drivel from a random nobody with no discernible achievement... The right to tell people how to run their live is pretty hard to gain.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Yes, a bit harsh. But helpful. Thank you
• PythonDeveloper 13y ago
  Welcome to the Internet world of "if we don't agree, you are wrong and anything else you say is stupid." People today are incapable of tolerance, despite demanding the same from others. Look at race and gender equality arguments. If you make any statement contrary to either, despite having the Constitutional right to do so, you are instantly attacked and called a racist or a bigot for having a non-conformist view, and all semblance of tolerance goes out the window. The magic you need comes in the form of "non-judgmental observational atonement". People want your observations, as long as you don't criticize those you are observing AND you come clean and atone for any past, present or future infractions thereof. They want to know you can "understand" their plight, but that you also agree that you can't truly understand how it affects them due to the richness of their individuality. OR, you could write what you want and let all those pasty-faced, milquetoast, spineless sons of bitches die in a volcano. I vote for the latter.
• yaongi 13y ago
  The article is very opinionated, with bolded sentences, repeated phrasing, and is mainly imperatives. The immediate response for me is 'some other fucker is telling me I have to work now?' Work means different things for different people. Also, I guess your opinion is actually more nuanced than the article implies, and though I still might not appreciate it, I wouldn't be as annoyed if the article was an honest exploration instead of a rushed polemic.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Thank you. That helps. Maybe I will re-write the post one day to give it a more natural and humble tone.
• PeterWhittaker 13y ago
  Let me paraphrase you, or meta-phrase, if you will: "What you are doing now, what you are passionate about now, is the be-all and end-all of your life! You need nothing else! Do it 24/7! If you choose to do something other than this, then choose something uplifting, something that supports and reinforces your view of the world! Because it is right! And the only one!" Dude. Chill. Where is your time for discovery? You say "travel, sure", but then you say "Forget the idea about how much fun others are getting in the Caribbean Islands." WTF? How will ever know if you like snorkeling or scuba diving or trapeze or archery, or various other idle pursuits that one discovers when one unplugs? It is possible to have multiple passions. The one you have now is just that: One. Allow yourself time and space to find others. "Humans are wired for growth." I don't even know what that means. Humans aren't wired for much other than eating, defecating, and breathing. Everything else is a choice, an itch. Don't over-glorify yours. Don't over-glorify what works right now. Because things change. If you are lucky, you'll discover the changes while you are still young and fit enough to enjoy them. Chain yourself to your current passion, for the rest of your life, and somewhere along the line you will wonder when you traded your monastic cell of devotion for solitary confinement.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Please see my response to jwcrux ;) Link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7007119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7007119
• octatone2 13y ago
  "Work from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep." Depressing as fuck.
• angersock 13y ago
  It's entirely possible that your post just tripped a lot of people's "Oh, it's the end of the year, I should clean out my subscriptions". That said... A quick reading suggests that your message is "choose work, because that means you are doing what you care about (work)". Even if that isn't capturing the subtlety of your message, that's probably what most took away from it. The "work work work" message doesn't go down well these days, especially because the zeitgeist is that companies are squeezing us folks dry. Asking people to bring their work into every facet of their lives is a bit much, to be honest--and I'm saying this as someone who does just that. A message of "do what you are passionate about", or "take pride in your work", or pretty much anything else would have gone better; otherwise, you come across as "become worker drone beep boop". Read The Jungle for a good perspective on how focusing on your work screws you. ~ Some miscellaneous gripes: Use an Oxford comma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma) in your sidebar about snippet: "...for happiness, integrity and success." => "...for happiness, integrity, and success." The choice of light-grey-white in the bottom of your about page is brutal--especially the "Me around the web". Why not use the little badges everyone is used to there, anyways, or in your sidebar? Your about page also has the worst-formatted quote (from Chuck Palahniuk, no less, who would laugh at your article I think) block I've seen in a while. You need to set the author's name off from the text, and fix the top padding. Fixing the colors wouldn't hurt either. Also, the picture in your sidebar can best be described as 'slackjawed', the hover version 'imbecillic'. If you're trying to write about how to become rich, famous, and fulfilled, I'd suggest not looking like a stereotypical college kid/PFY.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Thank you very very much. I will take that into account to improve my blog and next blog posts.
• tremols 13y ago
  I believe that people is starting to get sick of this over-narcisistic trend in blogging where you imply that you are a genious because you cracked X secret of life and you are going to share it with the less enlightened masses. Its going to backfire unless you provide a truly genius or novel insight.
• mathattack 13y ago
  With all due respect I can absolutely see why many people would no longer be interested in your opinions after such a self-centered post. This might be the path to achieving something big, but it also the path to loneliness. If you can't take off for even 15 minutes at a meal to talk about what's important for your family, then you can't expect them to really care about your work either. "At dinner, have a great meal with your loving ones and tell them what’s going on with work." I can only think what Freud might. They might be loving but they're not loved and they won't be loving for long. It is the content that might disturb folks, not your English. That you don't perceive this might be part of the problem.
• 6d0debc071 13y ago
  I remembering being told something very similar about university. But I got the degree and it was nothing to me. Achieving hard things is not innately rewarding, at least not for everyone. Maybe it's rewarding if your goal is meaningful, but how many people honestly have meaningful jobs? Wiring in another CRUD app? Shoot me now. If people enjoyed their work that much, they wouldn't probably need you to advise them to do it. For someone who's struggling with their work life balance, it's far from clear that 'Work more!' is the answer to their happiness. I know that, before I started only seriously coding a few hours a day and taking three day weekends, and spending the rest of the time on less focused stuff like meetings and planning and mentoring our newbies (favourite work-related activity), I basically had to take a long break from working every couple of years just to recuperate; get my mental ducks in a line, do some stuff that has nothing to do with work. Something I worry that you may not realise is that, for some people, focus and creativity are finite resources. What fuels those resources? Well, it seems to vary. Among other things, I enjoy swimming, reading fan-fiction of varying quality, and martial arts. I don't think I could function as a programmer if I didn't do those things. There was a time - back with the open-plan office coincidentally - when I didn't. When I was just getting into programming and it was all work work work. Sure, I'll pull the weekend, sure I'll help with this. I just wanted to make people happy. Eventually I noticed I was tired all the time, and my creativity and all the fun ideas I used to have just weren't there for me any more. I even stopped dreaming, and feeling emotionally connected to people. Not in a metaphorical sense, I was just so mentally knackered that I went to sleep and woke up in the morning with the impression no time had passed and not even a fleeting image of what I'd been dreaming. People would smile at me and it didn't make me feel happy any more. Would the answer for me really have been to work more? Your advice may be very good for some people, but in so far as you don't know everyone, it's probably a bit risky in terms of how people are going to respond to tell everyone to do it. Would I have unsubscribed? No, not if I found what you were saying in other respects worthwhile - I understand that you probably just want to help people and that's a nice thing, so I'd go with the benefit of the doubt rather than the content of the post. (Like when someone wishes me Merry Christmas - so what if I'm not a Christian? They want me to be happy, so Merry Christmas too!) But not everyone's going to see it like that, and writing it as more like, "What I've found make me happy at the moment." Potentially offers less that someone might take offence to if it's harder to read it as a statement about how you think they should live their lives. ^_^
• mindcrime 13y ago
  FWIW, I mostly agree with your post. I would subscribe, but I couldn't find the RSS feed link.
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    I thought every RSS reader automatically captured the RSS link if you give them the url for the blog. Anyhow, here it goes : http://danielflopes.com/rss http://danielflopes.com/rss ;)
• piyush_soni 13y ago
  @OP, Read this- Top 5 regrets of the dying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-the-dying_n_3640593.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-th... :)
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    Not new, but it's never bad to re-read that article. ;) Please see my response to jwcrux: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7007119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7007119
• lurkinggrue 13y ago
  How old is the OP?
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    23
• jamesbrownuhh 13y ago
  I wasn't a reader of your blog previously, but from the sidebar I take it to be about optimising your activities and effort - work smarter, not harder, that kind of thing. So really I'm guessing that an audience seeking those kind of tips is going to be mildly surprised or discouraged by an article which, in the first few sentences, basically seems to say "work all the time, every chance you get." - Chances are that such content is the absolute opposite of what your audience came for and is expecting. Some way down you do then introduce the idea that time is precious and it should not be wasted "consuming low quality content" - and not saying that your blog is low quality at all, but this sentence does plant a very powerful seed. Don't waste time with things you don't want to read or which are not interesting or relevant to your interests. The combination of the two could be a one-two punch, at least for some people. If people have not enjoyed the article, the immediate reaction may well be to "unsubscribe now."
  • danielflopes 13y ago
    That's an insightful point! TY
• ishiboy 13y ago
  you guys are idiots - they unsubscribed because most its the start of 2014 and they have been meaning to fix their inbox spam a while and finally have the motivation to do it.