7 ms·

I’m puzzled by one thing, if risk management is the concern: why not replace that clause by a candid, confidential conversation on what is wrong with the compan

by bertil 13y ago

I’m puzzled by one thing, if risk management is the concern: why not replace that clause by a candid, confidential conversation on what is wrong with the company? Any significant issue most likely affects more than one employee, including remaining ones. It sounds typical of a culture driven by lawyers, rather than leaders.

uptown 13y ago
In an ideal company culture, that conversation could have taken place at any time of the employee's tenure. Many companies do have exit-interviews designed to elicit this type of feedback. But with regard to severance ... companies know they have something of value, and many will seek to leverage that to their maximum advantage.
badman_ting 13y ago
Never been fired but I think of that as consulting. I have been asked for that kind of info on my way out, and said the same. I definitely would not be giving that out to to the company that just let me go.
- davedx 13y ago
  You refuse exit interviews even when you are the one who's decided to leave?
  - silverbax88 13y ago
    Companies could save themselves a lot of pretense with exit interviews and just assume the following: If a good person leaves your company, it is because of one or more of the following: 1. You can't (or won't) pay them as much as someone else. 2. They aren't happy in the culture of your company. 3. They aren't happy with the type of work they are doing. 4. They don't see a bright future with your company - either for themselves, or for the company, or both. 5. They don't trust the company (or, possibly, the people they work with). 6. It isn't one item, or one incident, but over their time with the company, many little things that eroded their desire to work there. A person leaving today might have become fed up with the company two years ago when some botched project burned them or a manager handled something completely inappropriately. People don't usually just quit on the spot. 7. They want to work for themselves. Which means, they don't want to work for you. It really isn't you, it's them. (Wish them good luck and be sincere) 8. They can get a better deal (non-monetary) somewhere else and it outweighs the job. For young people, often the job is part of their identity. Once people get married and have kids (or just get a little older), they realize that working for someone else is not much of a reward. They may want a more flexible schedule, may want to just physically be closer to their home, any number of things that you may not be able to control. 9. You see them as a replaceable part and they know it. (Surprise!)
    - dasil003 13y ago
      So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? I mean you have a list of 9 reasons off the top of your head and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
      - silverbax88 13y ago
        Name another reason that doesn't fall under those nine. I'm honestly not trying to argue, just asking. There aren't really that many reasons why people leave. People leave because they aren't happy or aren't getting paid enough or they have a personal situation that dictates it. There are really just 3 reasons but I elaborated because I expected people to start chiming in with all of the reasons I missed.
        kohanz 13y ago
        Those reasons are so vague, though. Alright, so "people aren't happy", how should I go about fixing that as an employer? Step 1: find out what they are unhappy about. Hence the exit interview. IMHO, this information should be gathered well before exit, e.g. through regular 1-on-1's, but that's another discussion.
        schrodinger 13y ago
        An exit interview allows you to be more candid than in a regular 1-on-1. When you're still an employee you're more worried about saying something that could affect your perception.
        kohanz 13y ago
        Good point. This also very much depends on the manager-employee relationship between the two people in the 1-on-1.
        GotAnyMegadeth 13y ago
        Just won the lottery Close relative has received a terminal diagnosis Believed their horrorscope Got pregnant Saved enough money to retire to Thailand Spouse has had an affair with a co-worker (Trust aside this is still a good reason)
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    If the company couldn't be bothered to learn what I thought in the months or years I've been working with them, I don't feel any motivation to tell them now. An exit interview is essentially saying, to me, "We didn't care until you left." There's also the fact that I find most interviews incredibly dehumanising experiences. Someone sits down and reads some set questions at you... bleh. Does anyone enjoy that? You want to know what I think, try having a conversation. If the emotional and intellectual investment on your side is you deigned to read me a list? Just... stuff that for a game of soldiers. I'm not going to put up some of my feelings and concerns in response to a list-reading machine. Ultimately, if I've got a good relationship with my manager, she or he will know why I'm leaving without needing to sit down and treat me like some stranger who they can interrogate. If we don't have a good relationship, then under those conditions all they've really done is pay my wage in return for code, and when they stopped doing so they lost the right to my time and effort in any form.
  - badman_ting 13y ago
    Outright refusing it seems awkward and overly hostile to me, but I have done it while giving very perfunctory answers. When they dug for more I told them I was available for consulting. Quite simply there is no incentive to do any more than that.
willvarfar 13y ago
Ah the notorious "exit interview"? Steer well well clear of them too! http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/haexit.htm http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/haexit.htm
- perlpimp 13y ago
  just say NO.
- waylandsmithers 13y ago
  I had one of these recently but didn't realize I could just decline it. I stuck firm with my "Nothing personal, just moving on to something new" rationale for leaving and basically answered all the questions in a "10/10 would work here again" kind of way. I figured any actual constructive criticism would be ignored anyway.
- enjo 13y ago
  I've used "peer-led exit interviews" to great effect. Essentially get one of their co-workers to take them out for lunch to talk about want went wrong. Folks are much more comfortable talking to their colleagues. The person conducting the interview is generally happy to pass along the criticism (usually because they agree with it) without having to since they don't have to put their name to it. I've gotten some real painful, but incredibly meaningful, feedback from these interviews.

by bertil 13y ago

uptown 13y ago

In an ideal company culture, that conversation could have taken place at any time of the employee's tenure. Many companies do have exit-interviews designed to elicit this type of feedback. But with regard to severance ... companies know they have something of value, and many will seek to leverage that to their maximum advantage.

badman_ting 13y ago

Never been fired but I think of that as consulting. I have been asked for that kind of info on my way out, and said the same. I definitely would not be giving that out to to the company that just let me go.

davedx 13y ago
You refuse exit interviews even when you are the one who's decided to leave?
- silverbax88 13y ago
  Companies could save themselves a lot of pretense with exit interviews and just assume the following: If a good person leaves your company, it is because of one or more of the following: 1. You can't (or won't) pay them as much as someone else. 2. They aren't happy in the culture of your company. 3. They aren't happy with the type of work they are doing. 4. They don't see a bright future with your company - either for themselves, or for the company, or both. 5. They don't trust the company (or, possibly, the people they work with). 6. It isn't one item, or one incident, but over their time with the company, many little things that eroded their desire to work there. A person leaving today might have become fed up with the company two years ago when some botched project burned them or a manager handled something completely inappropriately. People don't usually just quit on the spot. 7. They want to work for themselves. Which means, they don't want to work for you. It really isn't you, it's them. (Wish them good luck and be sincere) 8. They can get a better deal (non-monetary) somewhere else and it outweighs the job. For young people, often the job is part of their identity. Once people get married and have kids (or just get a little older), they realize that working for someone else is not much of a reward. They may want a more flexible schedule, may want to just physically be closer to their home, any number of things that you may not be able to control. 9. You see them as a replaceable part and they know it. (Surprise!)
  - dasil003 13y ago
    So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? I mean you have a list of 9 reasons off the top of your head and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
    - silverbax88 13y ago
      Name another reason that doesn't fall under those nine. I'm honestly not trying to argue, just asking. There aren't really that many reasons why people leave. People leave because they aren't happy or aren't getting paid enough or they have a personal situation that dictates it. There are really just 3 reasons but I elaborated because I expected people to start chiming in with all of the reasons I missed.
      - kohanz 13y ago
        Those reasons are so vague, though. Alright, so "people aren't happy", how should I go about fixing that as an employer? Step 1: find out what they are unhappy about. Hence the exit interview. IMHO, this information should be gathered well before exit, e.g. through regular 1-on-1's, but that's another discussion.
        schrodinger 13y ago
        An exit interview allows you to be more candid than in a regular 1-on-1. When you're still an employee you're more worried about saying something that could affect your perception.
        kohanz 13y ago
        Good point. This also very much depends on the manager-employee relationship between the two people in the 1-on-1.
      - GotAnyMegadeth 13y ago
        Just won the lottery Close relative has received a terminal diagnosis Believed their horrorscope Got pregnant Saved enough money to retire to Thailand Spouse has had an affair with a co-worker (Trust aside this is still a good reason)
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  If the company couldn't be bothered to learn what I thought in the months or years I've been working with them, I don't feel any motivation to tell them now. An exit interview is essentially saying, to me, "We didn't care until you left." There's also the fact that I find most interviews incredibly dehumanising experiences. Someone sits down and reads some set questions at you... bleh. Does anyone enjoy that? You want to know what I think, try having a conversation. If the emotional and intellectual investment on your side is you deigned to read me a list? Just... stuff that for a game of soldiers. I'm not going to put up some of my feelings and concerns in response to a list-reading machine. Ultimately, if I've got a good relationship with my manager, she or he will know why I'm leaving without needing to sit down and treat me like some stranger who they can interrogate. If we don't have a good relationship, then under those conditions all they've really done is pay my wage in return for code, and when they stopped doing so they lost the right to my time and effort in any form.
- badman_ting 13y ago
  Outright refusing it seems awkward and overly hostile to me, but I have done it while giving very perfunctory answers. When they dug for more I told them I was available for consulting. Quite simply there is no incentive to do any more than that.

willvarfar 13y ago

Ah the notorious "exit interview"? Steer well well clear of them too! http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/haexit.htm http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/haexit.htm

perlpimp 13y ago
just say NO.
waylandsmithers 13y ago
I had one of these recently but didn't realize I could just decline it. I stuck firm with my "Nothing personal, just moving on to something new" rationale for leaving and basically answered all the questions in a "10/10 would work here again" kind of way. I figured any actual constructive criticism would be ignored anyway.
enjo 13y ago
I've used "peer-led exit interviews" to great effect. Essentially get one of their co-workers to take them out for lunch to talk about want went wrong. Folks are much more comfortable talking to their colleagues. The person conducting the interview is generally happy to pass along the criticism (usually because they agree with it) without having to since they don't have to put their name to it. I've gotten some real painful, but incredibly meaningful, feedback from these interviews.