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The funny thing is, I imagine I'd fail this, and a lot of other "interview" questions. (Not fizzbuzz incidentally :P) Why? Because my brain just doesn't seem
by ACow_Adonis 13y ago
The funny thing is, I imagine I'd fail this, and a lot of other "interview" questions. (Not fizzbuzz incidentally :P)
Why? Because my brain just doesn't seem to work in the way people expect "experts" brains to work in our world of tests/qualifications.
Now for context, I don't consider my self some wishy washy "Oh I have a different KIND of intelligence" making-excuses dumb as nails nancy. I've worked several years now for my nation's statistics agency. I've written programs to calculate things professional statisticians couldn't (indeed that seems to be one of the reasons I get to keep my job :P) and just about every useless bloody stat there is, I've written my own probabilistic data linking software, finished in the top 10% of unrelated competitions on kaggle, and my formal qualifications are in economics. I don't think I'm the greatest thing ever, but if i might be so blunt, I feel I'm at the stage where I can confidently claim to have "proven my capabilities".
But I haven't memorized Bayes theorem (or any other probability or math-formulas), despite having applied it about 100 gazillion times. And despite being an economist, I haven't memorized "the relationship between bond prices and interest rates". Now, I could try to reason these things out from scratch in front of you, but I imagine most people in our world would see that as a "weakness" or trying to hide the fact that I couldn't answer the question.
With the probability one, I'd start going down the various interpretations of probability and whether your notion of probability is internally consistent/justified, etc etc etc. I doubt I could write the math on the white board of the top of my head in an interview (and i know several statisticians who couldn't also), but I could probably outperform most of the candidates who could in its application in the real world (speaking from experience), or be able to question whether there is a better tool for the job in the real world.
With the bond one, I know there's an answer that you expect me to give from rote during my education. But i won't. I haven't memorized it (because from experience, memorising these types of things is bad form, conditions you into erroneous thinking when they eventually turn out not to be universally true, and is far worse than reasoning, questioning or thinking about problems). So i'll ask you to describe your idea of a bond to me. I'll ask you to describe your idea of interest rates. Why are the interest rates rising? Maybe then, depending on what answers YOU give, I'll say "well then obviously bond prices must move inversely to interest rate movements", but there's just as much chance i'll pick up on some mistake you've made and never reach that point.
Now I'm not attacking you specifically. I don't know you, or what we think of each other, or how we'd interview each other. But from my experience, most people/recruiters/employers/interviewers would take my behaviour as a negative sign. A sign of "stalling" or "evading the question". Questioning, or reasoning, or skeptically interrogating things or mulling over questions for long periods of time, especially if they consider the answer "known", is a "bad sign".
And the rote learner, who'd just happened to memorise a particular formula or spent most of their time in one particular context, or bought the book on interview questions for said industry will get a big fat tick.
Moral of the story: Please don't use "interview questions" :P
- baddox 13y agoWhat sorts of questions or tests were posed to you in interviews for jobs you ended up accepting? Or if you've never been in that situation, can you propose some interview techniques that would give the interviewer a good idea of your abilities?
- ACow_Adonis 13y agoLets break down the role of interviews into two parts. The first part: To ensure the candidate is sufficiently-socialised and isn't a dangerous toxic mouth-breather. For this, current interviews can work relatively well. An hour or so, face to face, just talking back and forth mulling over problems/theory with an authority in the field or people they're working with. I am genuinely skeptical about whether people who don't know what they're talking about can actually hide that fact from people who do know what they're talking about in such a situation. The secret of course is to basically ignore qualifications/status and do it as a conversation. Perhaps in such a scenario, five minutes in me and the original poster would be getting onto ridiculous questions of trading/probability with great big smiles on our faces and forgetting all about whether one can remember bayes off the top of their head. The second part: Assessing the technical ability of the candidate at hand. And for this I think current interview culture is horribly toxic. I do not work for Facebook, nor do I believe that such techniques are not without their flaws, and are difficult/expensive to implement, but I think techniques aimed at "actually get the candidate to do the task involved in the job, and see how they go" has merit. Forget your preconceptions about what is required. Give them a real world task you'd expect them to do in the job, the time it would be expected of someone in the job. The resources of the job. See how they go.: See http://www.kaggle.com/c/facebook-recruiting-iii-keyword-extraction http://www.kaggle.com/c/facebook-recruiting-iii-keyword-extr... for example. Not perfect, but better than 5 minute "interviewer questions of the year". Funnily enough, I got into my current organisation answering questions in the interview on analyzing health statistics. Something I knew nothing about. A senior executive then snatched/let me move across to his area in the more technical side of things without a subsequent interview after I made it known I'd be interested, and after working with their guys for a bit on another project. Swings and roundabouts :P
- ColinWright 13y ago