8 ms·

Americans have a funny idea about what the middle class is compared to what I know in the UK. He talks about people working in meat processing as being middle

• lmkg 13y ago
  In America, the majority of the country self-identifies as middle-class, and in conversation and political rhetoric we basically use it as a synonym for "normal people." Not that the UK is wrong, but I think our usage matches the name a bit better. Doctor/lawyer-type professions are a bit exclusive to call them the middle. If someone is trying to pull statistics, "middle class" is defined by income to usually be either the middle 3 quintiles (60%) of the population, or an income between $25k-ish and $200k-ish. Doctors, Lawyers, etc. are usually on the top end of that range, and called upper-middle class.
  • justincormack 13y ago
    Most people in the UK self-identify as middle class now too actually.
    • lafar6502 13y ago
      Just as most people consider their IQ to be above average.
      • tolmasky 13y ago
        If you are using the mean for the average (which is quite common), then it is completely possible for most people to have their IQ be above average (not saying it is, just saying there's nothing mathematically wrong if it is).
        • eurleif 13y ago
          Except that IQs are explicitly made to fit a normal distribution.
      • justincormack 13y ago
        The "middle" class has never been defined as any kind of "average" class.
      • Crito 13y ago
        Well, half of them are correct (assuming a normal distribution, which IQ tests have by design).
  • voodoomagicman 13y ago
    The income range for the middle 3 quintiles is actually about $20k - $100k. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Quintiles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...)
  • maxerickson 13y ago
    For U.S. households, the 4th quintile tops out around $100,000. $200,000 is in the top 5%. For individuals, $100,000 is in the top 10%.
• tehaaron 13y ago
  I am from the US and when I hear fast food workers being referred to as middle class it always surprises me. Can you really afford to rent or buy a house, or buy a relatively new car, or pay on any substantial debt with the income from KFC? I guess more importantly do we really expect that someone should be able to? Should even the lowest paying of jobs be enough to do such things? I know as a kid working a minimum wage job I never expected that I should be able afford more than gas, snacks, and games until I had a "real job". I am curious if our economy could even afford to provide a "living wage" for virtually all jobs.
  • mjolk 13y ago
    I didn't realize that minimum wage earners make enough to afford video games. I realize that minimum wage is not much money, but if a KFC worker tunnels her off-time into something other than personal growth, that's a different problem.
    • tehaaron 13y ago
      Its enough if you're a kid still living at home under the age of 18 :) but you're right about anyone beyond that, I would hope they don't spend the money on video games!
      • mjolk 13y ago
        Ah, that's what I thought, but I thought I'd ask to be sure. I've been living in NYC where the neighborhood you live in and the industry you work in can make you lose sight of how others live. Thanks for the response.
    • boomlinde 13y ago
      I think the post makes sense if you assume that "as a kid" implies housing conditions different to those of rent payers or people with mortgages.
    • Crito 13y ago
      "I never expected that I should be able afford more than gas, snacks, and games until I had a "real job"." Rent/mortgage is notably absent from that list, so presumably they do not expect a minimum wage earner to be living on their own. With that assumption, it is reasonable that a minimum wage earner is making enough to keep themselves entertained when not working (though ideally they should of course be saving). Minimum wage really is not built as an independent living wage (let alone a living wage for people that have children, despite what some people think). Some other form of support is assumed.
• vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  In my mind middle class jobs are doctor, lawyer, professor, politician. Highly relative. By default these are considered upper middle class, although in certain cases they can be either middle class or upper class. Remember, middle class isn't a solidly defined term. It has nuances and ranges. Anyway, concerning the article: tl;dr Wages are low because labor unions aren't influential enough.
  • Domenic_S 13y ago
    Right. Michael Jackson's doctor earned a much different salary from the pediatrician you had growing up. Lots and lots of lawyers earn barely enough to get by, especially these days.
• bigtech 13y ago
  I'd say we split middle class into groups, and the meat processor might be something like 'lower middle', while a professional would be 'upper middle'.
• jiggy2011 13y ago
  It seems that the UK places a much greater emphasis on social factors when determining class. Class has as much to do with what accent you speak with, where you went to school and what your parents did for a living as it does your bank balance.
• sp332 13y ago
  In America, politicians and the media in general have a serious allergy to the phrase "working class".
  • jiggy2011 13y ago
    In the UK politicians seem to try avoiding using the word class altogether.
• EliRivers 13y ago
  The US has an aristocracy. One of their achievements is convincing everyone else they're not.
• melling 13y ago
  What percent of the population has those jobs? And what's the average income of those jobs? There are 317 million Americans, for example, and the average income is around $50,000. I think these jobs are a small percentage and pay well above average.
  • sp332 13y ago
    $50k is median per-household, not mean per person.
    • Crito 13y ago
      The number of workers per-household is somewhere around 1.2: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/ctpp/data_products/journey_to_work/jtw1.cfm http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/ctpp/data_pro...
• officemonkey 13y ago
  I tend to break "middle-class" from "upper-class" right around the $100,000 salary mark. If you're making $100,000/year, you're very likely upper class in the U.S. Of course, this doesn't work well in big cities (where the cost of living raises the bar to upper class a bit,) but it's remarkably accurate for most places in the country.
  • ImprovedSilence 13y ago
    it might be enough to make a 22 yr old in Mississippi upper class, but in no sense of the word is 100k upper class. Especially if you've got a family. I'd say upper class starts where you have enough money to live off the interest. Drs, lawyers, etc are upper middle. And industrial wage earners and most fresh college grads are lower middle. 100-200k earners would be middle middle. Aristocracy isn't really much of a thing. Yeah, there's plenty of "old money", but that falls into the upper class category. As stated in another comment, in the US, it's really the size of you bank account, not your name, or your accent, or where your from, or what school you went to, or what "estate" you live in that matters.
    • iamjustin 13y ago
      >100-200k earners would be middle middle? 100-200k for households puts you in the top 10%. Individuals, maybe top 5%. How is that not upper class!? I wish I was even low middle according to your scale... For reference: Income in 1999 Households..................................105,539,122 100.0 Less than $10,000............................10,067,027 9.5 $10,000 to $14,999............................6,657,228 6.3 $15,000 to $24,999...........................13,536,965 12.8 $25,000 to $34,999...........................13,519,242 12.8 $35,000 to $49,999...........................17,446,272 16.5 $50,000 to $74,999...........................20,540,604 19.5 $75,000 to $99,999...........................10,799,245 10.2 $100,000 to $149,999..........................8,147,826 7.7 $150,000 to $199,999..........................2,322,038 2.2 $200,000 or more............................. 2,502,675 2.4 Median family income (dollars)..................50,046 Per capita income (dollars).....................21,587 Median earnings (dollars): Male full-time, year-round workers..............37,057 Female full-time, year-round workers............27,194 http://censtats.census.gov/data/US/01000.pdf http://censtats.census.gov/data/US/01000.pdf
• olefoo 13y ago
  Rough answer; in the US you are part of the upper class if most of your income is derived from assets not wages. It's not a precise answer; but as a functional definition it works.
  • Domenic_S 13y ago
    Bingo. And you're part of the lower class if you need SNAP/food stamps/welfare/etc. Everything else is middle-class.
• rayiner 13y ago
  In the U.S., we have four classes: poor, middle, upper middle, rich. Poor is if you're on welfare (excluding Social Security). Nearly everyone else is middle class. Most doctors or lawyers would consider themselves upper middle class, but so would say a former construction worker who bought his construction business and now pulls in similar income. Very few people consider themselves "upper class" or "rich" and not for altogether invalid reasons. First, people compare themselves to the people around them, not against the whole population. People who you might expect to self-identify as "rich" have tremendously less occurrence of single-parent households, which drags down the national median household income of $50k/year. The national median household incomd for a married couple with kids is much higher, at $80k. In a major metro area, say DuPage County in the Chicago suburbs, the median household income for a married couple is over $100k/year. Second, it's difficult for people to consider themselves rich when even with a $200k/year income, their kids might have to take out student loans (top-notch American schools can cost over $50k/year). At the extremes, this phenomenon leads to some people working on Wall Street in New York self-identifying as upper middle class. The median price for a two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan is $1.35 million. It's hard to call yourself "rich" even making $250k/year HHI when you can't even afford a modest home near your work!
  • Domenic_S 13y ago
    Yep, and I think there's a hump that's in the $100-300k range where you start really socking away money for retirement and get your investment portfolio started which siphons money away from your raw purchasing power. In that hump your purchasing power doesn't increase linearly with income like it did before which contributes to the feeling of... futility maybe? Like, man this is a great big pile of cash and all I'm doing is saving it for when I'm 65. I still can't buy a house. What am I doing with my life?!
  • jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Yep. I watch those house hunting shows on TV and see houses in like the Midwest that I could buy outright with what I paid as a down payment on my house. But then... I don't want to live in the Midwest. :) And if I did live there, I probably would not have made a big enough salary to get that much cash in the first place. Catch-22 I guess.
• lurkinggrue 13y ago
  > I guess you don't have an aristocracy in the US who I don't know what counts as upper class there. Donald Trump and Paris Hilton.
• gaius 13y ago
  The lower class will never get a mortgage, the upper class will never need a mortgage, the middle class live or die by the mortgage rate. I don't know who said it originally, but that's the most useful way to describe it that I've found.